Return to Great Lakes & Seaway Shipping Great Lakes & Seaway Shipping Online
Discussion Boards
Please click to visit our sponsor
It is currently February 20, 2018, 4:30 am

FAQ | Instructions | Help
Search for:

Post a reply
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 60000 characters. 

Font size:
Font color
BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Disable BBCode
Do not automatically parse URLs
What is the word just after the "&" in the header of this Discussion Board?:
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Upload attachment
If you wish to attach one or more files enter the details below.
File comment

Topic review - My starting to be a sailor
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
Other subjects were ship construction and stability. With the ship construction we were one time allowed to visit the local shipbuilding yard of Henry Robb which was not far from the college. We were there once to see a launching which was impressive. The work on building a ship was one that had been used for many years. A plating shop cut and bent plates to shape. The frames were bent to plans on a large bending plate with holes to put the pegs to bend it. All very labour intensive and slow. I think of today’s modern methods of modular construction when all the work is done in a covered environment and like Lego is joined together on site. Changed days and a better quality of ship is the result. It is not surprising the shipyard no longer exists. The drawing room was a massive place with many draughtsmen busy making plans. All done now on a computer and a draughtsman with a mouse. It was busy term and I now could understand the amount of information and skills which were necessary to become a navigating officer. I was glad when the term came to a close and a few weeks’ vacation was earned after the exams were finished. One more term and them it would be off to sea to get sea time in to qualify for the certificate of competency. The whole term I had been riding my bike regardless of the weather. When it rained I had a ponchos type of rainwear. The bikes were all fitted with what we would call fenders but we at the time called them mud guards. That stopped the wheels spraying up on you. On days when I did take public transit I would be reading the rules of the road as we were frequently asked questions about them and another exercise I never did manage without difficulty. How is she heading? I thought this archaic especially when it was a sailing ship. For this exercise you were show navigation light in a certain angle off the bow and given your ships course and had to respond in the directions the target could be heading. So much useless knowledge I thought but it was required in the syllabus for second mates exam!
Post Posted: February 16, 2018, 6:54 pm
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
The other major purchase was one essential for the classroom work and one I used for many years after until I stopped sailing deep sea, “Nonie’s Nautical Tables”. This tome consisted of logarithmic tables, to use in working out celestial navigation, and many other tables to assist in daily navigational calculations. A very interesting feature was “Ports of the World”. This was of use when on tramp ships and we were stemmed to load cargo in a port which we did not even know its location! These tables which were really a great labour and time saving aid were in the days before calculators or computers and large mathematical problems could only be solved using logarithms (invented by a Scot by the way). The calculations were done to five places and when working out star sights could take nearly an hour with five star shots. Many short versions were made during WWII to make it easier and although they helped none were universally adopted.
Our classroom studies in the navigation were interesting and we were given an insight in to how early navigators managed to find their way round the world. The easiest method was one called parallel sailing. This before the invention of an accurate time piece to help calculate longitude i.e. the chronometer. A captain would sail either north or south until the destination latitude was reached and the sail east or west until the destination was reached. Latitude was easy to calculate by either using the sun at its zenith or the North Star, Polaris. We graduated to Plane sailing, Rhumb line sailing and then Great Circle sailing. All the calculations for these were done using Nonie’s.
Chart work was like learning to read all over again. There were hundreds of notations and symbols on a marine chart and initially it was like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics. The information, I am certain at one time was extremely useful but as electronic aids to ascertain a vessel’s position became more accurate some of these became obsolete. As an example, the nature of the sea bottom. It was found using an armed lead line (the bottom of the sounding lead had a hollow and this was filled with tallow) went it touched the sea floor it measured the depth and when retrieved the bottom contents were on the lead. It could be anything from white sand or broken shells, dark mud, etc. I never in my sea going carrier used a lead line for this function but still was required to know about them. It did give us a great admiration for the early hydrogrophers who painstakingly collected this information. One of the greatest of these was Captain James Cook and in later years when satellites were used to survey some of his charts were found to be extremely accurate and he did not have many aids to assist him and his men. On ships I sailed on we had thousands of charts to covering worldwide seas and ports and the job of the second mate was to keep them corrected. Each port here would be a pile of “Notices to Mariners” issued by the British hydrographic office containing corrections and he studiously had to sort out the charts and apply the corrections. A time consuming job that was to start all over again at the next port when the mail was delivered.
Post Posted: February 14, 2018, 4:54 pm
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
One thing I forgot to mention about the T.S. Dolphin was the decks were wood and a chore I will not miss.
Every week all cadets and deck trainees were lined up and holistoned the deck. We were on our knees and sand was sprinkled on the deck and dampened. Then we would push these stones back and forward along the grain to the wood until your arms ached. Then it was washed down. It did look good when finished!!
Post Posted: February 13, 2018, 6:29 pm
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
The time on the “Dolphin” was coming to a close and from the bunch of us rookies who were full of expectations and somewhat anxious there emerged a class of cadets, no longer lacking in the skills required for our future profession. One of the last things for me was obtaining my bronze cross in lifesaving. After a couple of week’s vacation we were now moving on to the next step in our education. Before it was mainly physical and now we would be required to use our brains and memory.
The next term was at the Nautical college which was an old building sandwiched between massive bonded warehouses. These warehouses stored thousands of casks of Scotland’s major export, whiskey. They were aging and being readied for export. I was amazed at the cooperage that was at the back of the college where casks were being repaired and new ones made to be sent out and filled with sherry. The skill of these men was amazing as oak was fashioned into staves, arranged and the chimes fitted. It is a skill still used in today’s world as wine and spirits still use these casks.
Our days were spent in the classroom learning among many things, meteorology, chartwork, ship construction, signals (Morse code, semaphore and international code flags), navigation, ship stability and the dreaded spherical trigonometry. Each day we started with the signals. The room would be darkened and the Morse sent by light. One student would read what was sent and the other copy it on to a signal pad. The pad was five characters wide and nine deep. Each row would be four letters and one number. If you did not get one you would say pass as each row was checked and if you did not do that it was difficult to check. Initially it was slow but as we became more proficient it was speeded up. I did not like this but it was a requirement for all our certificates of competency it was a must. Semaphore was the same block pad reading it and to tell the truth I never did see it used on board but the BOT said it was necessary. The International code flags we had to recognise and know the single flag hoist meaning. This is still in these days of electronic messaging used but mostly the single flag hoists. On top of the day at the college homework was a daily feature and double up for the weekend. The chart work and navigation I enjoyed and meteorology was interesting. The instructors were all addressed as Captain and they all were in possession of their Extra Masters certificates. (No mean achievement). No lax behavior was tolerated and woe betide you if you did not complete you assignments. One subject that was not appealing was the one about the “principles of navigation” but it did give you a foundation to the “Art” of navigation. This was long before pushing the correct buttons supplied you with the vessels position and all the relevant details. It would have been wonderful later on having GPS when crossing the North Atlantic in winter and never seeing the sun or stars for days on end and using only DR positions. Sometimes it was quite a surprise when you did get a position and you were many miles from where you thought. You did get fairly competent with experience and fairly accurate!!. Another subject associated with navigation was calculating tides for many regions in the world. Not the Baltic or Mediterranean as there are no real tidal effects there. To assist us in these studies we were required to purchase many text books and the main one being “Nichols Concise Guide” which helped us to the understanding of navigation.
Post Posted: February 12, 2018, 4:32 pm
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
I've always marveled at life boat technology and how they were designed to be launched 50+ years ago. Appears they were designed by people who had never been on a ship, let alone one that was sinking. All would work well when sitting calmly at a dock, but if the equipment had not been cycled & maintained frequently, it could become difficult to operate. That, and most ships that I've seen tend to go down in bad weather, thus the ship would be lurching back & forth, rolling left & right, and the boat most likely taking on a good list, all while trying to get these little boats in the water without smashing them to pieces. Although better than nothing, the life rafts on many of the older the Great Lakes boats also seemed to have been designed and authorized by people who had never climbed into a lake in December.

We all learn from our mistakes. The orange self launching boats I've seen on more recent boats, seem to make a whole lot more sense.

Post Posted: February 9, 2018, 9:45 am
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
I mentioned previously the “Dolphin” was the training place for deck ratings and catering staff. Stewards were shown how to do their jobs and cooks were trained to pass the “Ships Cook” examination. There was a ships saloon same as on board a merchant ship and a large galley. The teaching staff from the college would come and have their lunch served as it would be on board. We as cadets were also allowed to be seated and served several times during the term. Was a real treat for us as most had never enjoyed this experience except from our Moms which was not quite the same? Instructors were keeping an eye on the stewards to see they were doing the right thing and some even got proficient in “silver service” The galley was not only used as a training place as there were some students who lived far from the college and they lived on board. Meals were supplied to them (their ration books were handed in) the accommodation and washroom facilities were rather basic and unfortunately for the students living far away there was no reprieve. Looking back it was no worse than the first couple of ships I sailed on and in some ways better as there was no water rationing!
Lifeboat drill was done on the dock besides the “Dolphin” and we were required to pass the exam for the ‘Certificate of Efficiency as a Lifeboatman”. This was a practical and paper exam. It consisted of knowing what stores were required to be carried, the equipment needed and naming the parts of the sails, etc. It was a requirement that we launched the lifeboat and take it away from the dock under oars. The launching of these boats would require four persons to lower the boat. Two at each falls as they were rope and one person would do the lowering and the backup feeding him the rope falls. The examiner required each student to be able to reeve a threefold purchase. All students had to take turns being in charge. The launching of the lifeboats were from old type Radial davits and wind out type. These, when I look back at today’s gravity launch systems were archaic and needed a team effort and being choreographed otherwise it was a disaster. The radial davits especially were difficult to get right and I pitied the sailors who were required to use them in an emergency situation. Under sail these boats would not win the America’s Cup and it needed a good breeze to make any sort of headway. It gave us a good foundation as to what it would be like on a lifeboat so I realised it would certainly be a last resort getting in to one of them.
With all this exercise and the riding to and fro I had little problems sleeping at night and became as fit as I ever had been.
Post Posted: February 8, 2018, 5:15 pm
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
I used to stop some afternoons on the way home at my grandmother’s home as she lived just opposite to where the water trough was and where the additional horse was harnessed on. She usually had some fresh baked scones or other tasty treats. It was an intensive course at the “Dolphin” and things I had learned in the Scouts came to the fore. One was boxing the compass and even today this I can still do. Learning all the quarter points and being able to do it clockwise and anti-clock wise was required and you were tested on it. Again another skill I had acquired was being able to swim. I was surprised there were some in my class that could not swim. We were all to have extra lessons so we would be able to pass the Royal Live Saving Society standard for the bronze medallion. Several times a week we went to the local baths (swimming pool) and under the watchful eye of several instructors do the routine to pass this test. As I had a head start so to speak I obtained the bronze medallion and went to the next stage and got the bronze cross. I will try and attach a picture of these as I cherish them.
Climbing the masts and being able to do the painting when in a bosun’s chair and lowering yourself was something I was happy to be able to do and rigging a stage for over the ships side work. These entire things are no longer allowed as the workplace health and safety rules forbid these dangerous practices!!! Don’t know how we survived with all these rules now. I recall being over the ships side on a stage, chipping and priming the bare steel. We would have safety goggles but no safety harness and when we were called for smoko or lunch we climbed up the painter, no ladder then. If it was hot and we were on the outboard side we would dive in the water to cool off and swim back to the ropes and pull ourselves up. My how the safety guys would cringe at this!!

swimcert.jpg [ 131.33 KiB | Viewed 1660 times ]
rlscmedals.jpg [ 12.49 KiB | Viewed 1660 times ]
Post Posted: February 7, 2018, 10:31 pm
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
Happy Belated Birthday Capt!
Post Posted: February 7, 2018, 8:50 am
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
On February 6th 1952 we were out having rowing practice and it was cold with a thin film of ice on the water. This date I remember as it was my sixteenth birthday. We were becoming more proficient and even managed to toss oars when retuning alongside the mooring. We just got back on board the Dolphin when we were told that King George VI had died. We did not know at this time there would be a major resistance to the title of our new Queen. The first queen Elizabeth was an English Monarch and when she died the next in line of accession was the Scottish King James VI. He was to be named the VI of Scotland and I of England. Christians would come to know him as he was the person that had the “Bible” rewritten. i.e.” King James version of the Holy Bible”.
A piece of trivia that will stump most people. Who is the first person mentioned in the “Bible”?? Answer a Scot----- King James!
Now the new Queen was to be known as Queen Elizabeth II and that went down like a lead balloon with the fervent Scottish Nationalists. It was supporters of this group who two years previously, had stolen the “The Stone of Scone” which was in Westminster Abbey under the Coronation Chair. This used to crown all British Kings and Queens at their coronation. The history of this stone is extensive and should you wish to learn about this stone please “Google” it. This was such a bone of contention with a section of the populace that when the new mail boxes were positioned in Scotland with QEIIR on them they were blown up (These mail boxes are red cast iron cylindrical with slots for mail and a door with a lock). After this the new mail boxes went away from tradition and did not have the monarch’s initials on them in Scotland. This many years later resulted in the devolution of power from Westminster to a Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh in 1999.
It was not all practical work as classroom instruction was intensive. One of the books used was “The Boatswains Manual” a sort of all inclusive informative about a sailor’s work and methods. I still have my copy of this book after all these years. One of the tasks we were given was to learn the “Rules of the Road” (International Rules for Preventing Collision at Sea). It was onerous and I used to read it on the way to the “Dolphin” and on the way home in the evening. I had to get a bus into Edinburgh and then a tramcar down to Leith. It took about an hour because of the wait to get the right one and at the time there were many services all over the city. There was no such thing as getting a transfer ticket as we do when taking public transit here but required an extra fare. As I was a student it was not expensive. Later on when the weather was better, I used to cycle to and fro every day. Cycling in Edinburgh was not too bad as there were not many private cars. It was not without problems though. Many of the streets were cobble stone and this made for a bumpy ride. The tramcar rails were dangerous and if you had to cross them you made sure it was at a large angle cause should the wheels get in the track you would fall off. Riding home at night, if you were lucky you would catch a lift by holding on to a horse cart going up Leith Walk. They went most of the way but stopped to hitch an extra horse on to go up the hill and give the original horse a drink at the trough and short rest. To make it easier there were smooth sections for the wheels and groves to allow the horses feet from slipping when it was wet. I don’t know how I remember all these small details when today I can’t remember where I put the car keys!!
Post Posted: February 5, 2018, 4:13 pm
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
I had to give up my job with the butcher so got my cousin to take over. When I was back for the first ever vacation in 1999 as part of a nostalgia trip, (although I had been back to Scotland for the building of the three Govan boats) I went to see if they were still operating. Surprised they still were and it was the grandson of the owner when I was there. I spoke to him and told him I was a delivery boy there in 1950’s he was all for some of my stories. Even went down in the basement and the old boiler to render the fat was still there!!
In January of 1952 I started my pre-sea training at Leith Nautical College. I was fortunate to get into this course as there was a high demand for young men to go into the “Merchant Navy”. The British merchant fleet was decimated during WWII and now an intensive programme was underway to re build this fleet to serve the Colonies and other countries which were part of the Commonwealth and USA etc. It required more men trained to do the many jobs associated with sailing a ship. At Leith Nautical college young men were trained to be radio officers, deck and catering ratings as well as tutor men for the certificates of competency in navigation and engine room. I was to start by going to the T.S. Dolphin which was moored in the Old West dock in the harbour. This was a ship which was built in 1884 for the Royal Navy and it was constructed of wood with copper sheathing on the below water line. It was originally a ship with guns etc but these were long gone and additional housing built to accommodate the facilities to teach us nautical ways. On this boat which was under the control of Captain Tate, courses were conducted for ships cooks, stewards, deck ratings and cadets. There were dormitories for some to the students to stay. As well it had a fitted out ships galley and saloon as well as classrooms etc. The students were separated so we did not the same instruction as the deck rating though it was very similar. I had an advantage over some of the other cadets as I knew all the knots from my time in the Boy Scouts.
We had to wear a battledress type of uniform and coveralls when doing deck work (we would have loved to have had jeans but these were not available due to the foreign currency restrictions) like splicing, painting or oiling wires etc. When in the boats we did not wear lifejackets which would be a big no no by today’s standards. His was a new experience for all of us as these boats were large and with the full compliment would have been about fifteen of us, one being the coxswain. It took a few hours of practice before we did not look like a spider doing the backstroke.
Post Posted: February 3, 2018, 7:53 am
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
RCRVRP wrote:
Was the idea of going away to sea considered exotic, fanciful, daring, romantic, crazy,ridiculous, intelligent.. or something else at that time and place?

What did your peers, your family and the neighborhood think of the idea?

Was sailing considered a noble pursuit?

I was the first in our family to go to sea and they did think it was in some ways romantic but there was another reason.
At this time every able bodied male when attaining the age of eighteen, unless in a reserved occupation, attending university or undertaking an apprenticeship (when this was finished they too had to go into the amed forces) was enlisted in the army for two years,the air force and navy three years. The only exception was if you were not fit.
Britiain during this period had several wars going on in the colonies and dependant territoires.
I did not fancy being shot at or killed serving King (Queen) and country.
It was not in any wayy thought of as exotic.
When reality sets in its certainly not romantic.
The songs "Those Far Away Places" and "She Wears Red Feathers and a Huly Huly Skirt" did not influence me!!!
Post Posted: January 30, 2018, 4:33 pm
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
Was the idea of going away to sea considered exotic, fanciful, daring, romantic, crazy,ridiculous, intelligent.. or something else at that time and place?

What did your peers, your family and the neighborhood think of the idea?

Was sailing considered a noble pursuit?
Post Posted: January 30, 2018, 11:42 am
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
Our scout camps all had something in common; they were in a field and were close to a burn (stream) or river with woods nearby. The river or burn was where we would wash and play and the woods as a source of wood for the campfires. A local farmer would bring fresh milk each day in large milk churns and the potable water. Eggs too would be welcome. As I mentioned before meats were still on ration so prior to going off camping we had to give the scout master our week’s coupons so he could arrange for a local butcher to supply us with sausages etc. It was all go from the time we got up early in the morning till the evening when we sat round the camp fire with our mugs of cocoa and sang songs. We would put potatoes in the fire to cook and occasionally have dampers. This was made with flour and water which we rolled in thin strips and wound round a freshly debarked twig and held it close to the fire to cook. I believe this was an Australian invention. At the end of the evening it was off to the tent and sleep. If you had been on a camp before you knew to bring a few goodies to munch on and share with your tent mates. Scotland is not known for warm climate and rainy days were not infrequent but there was always something to do like classes to teach you to tie knots and tree recognition. The guys who had the misfortune to be on the cooking duties still had to carry on. The food was basic and not well cooked at times but as I had survived school dinners I managed to eat it. In the morning we would alternate with a cooked breakfast and cereals which were all wheat based. We did not get corn flakes till latter in the UK as after the war Britain was nearly bankrupt and did not have the foreign currency to all it to import many goods I.e. foods like beef and corn. One thing that comes to the fore was we brought with us scout staffs. These were long wood poles about six feet which we carried when out hiking and were taught how to lash them to help make temporary shelter supports. The camps were for two weeks duration and midway through the camp had a parent day when our parents could visit for the day. Some of the scouts who had never been away from home would be homesick and wanted to go home but this was discouraged. The latrines were really disgusting and we had to dig them deep so soil was added each day. At the end of camp they were filled in and the sod replaced. By the time camp ended I don’t think there were many of us really clean as washing each day in the cold water burn was not for the faint of heart. There no showers or hot water for bathing.
I was getting to the age when I had to give some thought on what I wanted to do for a living. There were no such things as school counsellors to help you in your career choice. It was shortly after the school leaving age had been raised from fourteen to fifteen so I had soon to seriously give it some thought. The idea of going to sea as a cabin boy was forgotten and my next thought was to go to sea as a radio operator (Sparkie). My father went to Leith Nautical College to enquire about the choices open for me. He met a person whom I had a great deal of admiration for, Captain Tate. He suggested I might consider doing the pre sea training course for cadets. This, to give you a start on becoming a deck officer in the Merchant Navy. It was still a few months before decision time and I still attended school which to be frank, I hated. Just before my fifteenth birthday I was given a form to have my parent complete allowing me to leave school at the end of the term when I attained my fifteenth birthday. I forged their signatures and went home at the end of the school term and informed them I was finished with school. Their reaction was not congenial and quite the argument followed. I was back at school the next term. Doing this allowed me to get the Secondary School Leaving Certificate. I was a little early to start the Cadet programme so attended a private school to be tutored in maths and physics.
Post Posted: January 29, 2018, 8:37 pm
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
During the time I was working at the butcher shop I had saved up enough money to buy myself a new bike. It was an upgrade from the old three speed one I had been using. It was a make called Dawes and had a derailleur six speed gear with racing handle bars. As with all bikes in the UK there were fenders (we called them mud guards) they stopped the tires throwing water on to you when riding in wet weather, not an unusual occurrence in Scotland!! I and a couple of friends joined a group called Scottish Youth Hostelling Association which offered accommodation in many locations in the country. They were not luxury but dormitory style sleeping and a communal kitchen. You were required to supply your own sleeping bag and staying at one location was restricted to two days. We would set out on the Friday evening or Saturday if we were on school holidays and limit ourselves to fifty or so miles before stopping. In those days there was not much traffic on the roads so it was not too far. We did on one occasion, cycle from Edinburgh to Arbroath. This we agreed was really a bit far. We went to South Queens Ferry and got the ferry across the Forth and then cycled to Broughty Ferry and caught the ferry across the Tay and to Dundee. Next it was on to Arbroath. One of the friends had an aunt there and we stayed with her. His cousin invited us to a ceilidh which is a gathering where dancing and singing take place in traditional Scottish fashion. We were rather tired but this was too good an opportunity to pass up. We slept overnight and next day repeated the journey back home. I look on this now and think how fit we must have been to do this long journey. I was also a member of the Boy Scouts. This organization was founded by Lord Baden Powell and was to help young boys acquire the skills and training to help in your formative years. I enjoyed this as we would meet weekly and have games and learn about the countryside and how to cope with life’s challenges. You could earn proficiency badges for many subjects. The aim was to make you a better citizen. Every year they had a fund raising named “Bob a Job Week” (A bob was the nick name for a shilling which was the twelfth part of a pound). You would offer to work at any chore for the payment of a bob. As you got progressively better you could be promoted to “Second” and then Patrol leader. During school break in the summer we would go camping for two weeks out in the country. The groups had names and numbers and this was sewn on to your uniform. An inspection was held every meeting and you had to make sure your uniform was clean and the neckerchief and toggle in position. These rules were of a very military style but I did not mind them. Camping meant we rented a moving type van and loaded all the equipment, tents and cooking gear as well as our kit bags with personal clothing and blankets and ground sheets. When this was all loaded we would pile in the back and to the compriament of lusty singing proceed to the camp site which usually was not too far away. On arrival the Scout Master would allocate each platoon a site to erect their tent. When this was done he and his assistant Scout masters would allocate some to dig latrines and others to erect the kitchen tent and get the stoves etc ready. Most of us had never cooked but this was not a deterrent as all had to take turns cooking the very basic meals under the watchful eye of the assistant. Peeling potatoes for the lunch and dinner was a mammoth task and everyone had to take their turn. It was not something new for me as my mother had insisted my brother and I learnt to do basic cooking and peeling potatoes was something we were used to. I could cook some of the breakfast items no trouble and my porridge (oatmeal) was edible and fried eggs not a glutimous mess .
More later
Post Posted: January 28, 2018, 5:58 pm
  Post subject:  Re: My starting to be a sailor  Reply with quote
Hi Captain! Thank you for taking the time to share your stories with us. The last one you posted had me laughing. Sounded like an "Oor Wullie" escapade!
Post Posted: January 27, 2018, 12:52 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours

Return to Great Lakes & Seaway Shipping  
Copyright All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Use of this site is based on the Terms of Use
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group