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by Al » January 26, 2015, 5:31 pm

As a former Merchant Seaman, I find Senator McCains' attempt to get rid of the Jones Act offensive. Considering the number of lost jobs that would happen if this took place, it shows the Senators complete disregard for American jobs, both on the lakes and in our shipyards.

by **Jared** » January 24, 2015, 4:09 pm

We are still 1/3 larger than the Chinese. Both in GDP and PPP, and by far in GNP (china will never reach our level. I also see that most of trading ships are based out of Carribean nations for tax purposes. Meaning that the way the govt taxes the companies must be ridiculous enough to register them there.

by **PDBLK25** » January 24, 2015, 11:29 am

Jared wrote: 191 deep water ships sounds very low since we are the largest economy in the world.

Are we still the largest economy in the world? I thought 2014 was the year that China overtook us. We are the worlds largest consumer economy so only 191 U.S.-Flagged deepwater ships does sound very low. And this is with the Jones Act (which as a veteran of many years on the Lakes, I fully support) firmly in place. So for the low number of ships we must look elsewhere.

The U.S. has become, what in the past would be called a colonial economy. We send China, S. Korea, Japan, etc. raw materials & food (Alaskan oil, coal, pet-coke & grains) in bulkers. Since they are exporting to another country, they are under no obligation (but sometimes do) use U.S. ships. In return, we are flooded with the other nation's exports - finished goods - which arrive in container ships, or specialized car-carriers. These producer nations use vessels of their own flag or a flag of convenience. No need for U.S.-Flagged ships there. Unfortunately, the Jones Act can't change this. The U.S, becoming a strong producing nation (which Sen. McCain also seems to oppose) can.

by **Jared** » January 24, 2015, 12:01 am

Some countries still use the Liberty ships that were built in WWII. So American and British vessels show their quality. How many non Asian and south American countries can say the same? 191 deep water ships sounds very low since we are the largest economy in the world.

by **Guest** » January 23, 2015, 10:52 pm

GuestfromEU wrote:Unless you're counting steam for HFO heating, there are no USA-built, merchant, steam powered ships built in 40 years.

Steam turbine installations continued into the 1980's on the oceans, including in US built and flagged merchant vessels. The SS John B. Waterman and her two sisters that were built in 1983 that are now part of the US Navy Military Sealift Command after being sold out of civilian service are examples of such.

by **Guest** » January 23, 2015, 9:00 pm

Middle rouge wrote:
Guest 5464 wrote:Horizon lines, which operates several container ships, including the 3 built by bay-ship in the early '80s, has an average vessel age of 35 years. Last I checked, they are still operating 2 ships built as general cargo ships in the Vietnam era that were converted to containerships in the late '80s.

Most US flagged ships involved in deep water trade are also steam powered

Some clarifications on your post:
1. Horizon Lines does not exist any more.
2. The 3 ships built at Bay-Ship were delivered in 1987.
3. Of the 191 Deep Sea U.S. Flag vessels in operation, the vast majority are diesel powered.

by **edm** » January 23, 2015, 1:37 pm

I find John McCain short-sighted with a very narrow vision with regard to international trade. if he is interested in creating more jobs and a better economy here at home - why in the world does he not try to open the markets of China and Japan to American goods and trade ? I think it's time john retire and let a more progressive person fill his seat in congress.

by **Guest** » January 23, 2015, 1:31 pm

Jared wrote:What is really painful is that at one time the US had close to 40% of all the worlds trade ships along with the largest merchant fleet the world has ever seen. Now this one person is trying to annihilate whatever toehold we have in this industry. The US and the UK have built the best ships to ever sail in the cargo industry.

I see McCain's position as a moot point; there is no support to repeal the law. It makes for interesting debate but is it even remotely possible ? I don't think so.

by **Jared** » January 23, 2015, 12:24 pm

What is really painful is that at one time the US had close to 40% of all the worlds trade ships along with the largest merchant fleet the world has ever seen. Now this one person is trying to annihilate whatever toehold we have in this industry. The US and the UK have built the best ships to ever sail in the cargo industry.

by **Chet** » January 23, 2015, 9:28 am

I see from the 1/23 posting on the news page that Sen. John McCain has revealed the true reason he wants to repeal parts of the Jones Act -- it's a law that protects those dreaded unions. Let's sacrifice what's left of our nation's shipbuilding industry so we can hurt organizations that enable working men and women to protect themselves. That's an All-American sentiment for you.

by **GuestfromEU** » January 23, 2015, 7:39 am

It pains me to read some things here, such as

"Most US flagged ships involved in deep water trade are also steam powered"

and

"How many ships do we build a year for commercial purposes? I know we have not built a new laker since the late 80's. It seems the only things we build are warships, barges, and tugs."

While I cannot comment on the Canada-Europe trade agreement for lack of in-depth knowledge, I can address the two statements above.

I believe the USA merchant ocean fleet is down to a handful of steamships, certainly less than five. The last USA-built ship I was on was a product tanker (300,000+ bbl) built in 2010. That was a slow speed main engine. Unless you're counting steam for HFO heating, there are no USA-built, merchant, steam powered ships built in 40 years...

Likewise, I was reading a list of each major shipyard's build history. Picking 1988 as a rough year to start counting, I lost track after 100. The USA does build a lot of warships (too many/too complicated), as well as tugs and barges, but the number of true ships is easy to overlook. Aker Philadelphia has in progress or delivered 28 merchant ships since 2003. NASSCO is at 22 finished/in progress since 1988 (plus a few MSC/civilian crew ones not counted).

Sure, a Korean yard can put that out per year, but as others noted, the USA follows first world environment and safety policies. Korean workers are paid $5/hr (I work in one of the major yards there...I know). That's for basic, minor skilled labor. It goes to $7 with English skills AND experience.

by **PaulBeesley** » January 22, 2015, 10:12 pm

Thank you for the clarification.

Paul

by **guest905** » January 22, 2015, 5:15 pm

That section only over rides the Canadian Shipping Act in regards to picking up empty containers or a feeder service for containers. it is very specific. What could happen is something like a Wagenborg vessel (It would have to be a ship registered in the European Union) could pick up containers in Toronto and Montreal for delivery to a country that is party to the agreement. The other section dealing with third party countries is the way things are now. Aside from the Netherlands based companies such as Wagenborg, Flinter etc most of the trade between Canada and the European Community is carried in flags of convenience vessels.

The Europeans have the ships that can provide the container service. Those registered in the Netherlands pay European wages that are similar to North American and have the same if not higher environmental and safety regulations.

If the Europeans can get the containers I think CSL and Algoma should lobby the government to get the same privileges for Canadian registered self-unloaders to carry cargo between say two ports in Germany

by **PaulBeesley** » January 22, 2015, 9:02 am

In Canada we are also at risk of losing our protections for Canadian-flagged and crewed ships.

The Canadian Govt has been negotiating for 5 years with the European Union and has finally agreed to CETA - Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement. This agreement was reached without consulting voters and the details have only recently been released.

The portion of the Agreement dealing with maritime matters is this:

16. INTERNATIONAL MARITIME TRANSPORT SERVICES
[ANNEX] [CHAPTER] XY
INTERNATIONAL MARITIME TRANSPORT SERVICES

The words of concern are:

"Article 2: Obligations
Each Party shall permit international maritime transport service suppliers of the other Party to re- position owned/leased empty containers, not being carried as cargo against payment, between ports of that Party.
Each Party shall permit international maritime transport service suppliers of the other Party to provide feeder services between ports of that Party.
Either Party may adopt or maintain cargo-sharing arrangements with third countries concerning international maritime transport services, including dry and liquid bulk and liner trades."

Seems to me that this opens up intra-Canadian maritime trading to international-flag ships and shipping companies. Those that don't pay Canadian taxes, don't hire Canadians, don't pay decent western wages, and other concerns.

by **Darryl** » January 21, 2015, 4:56 pm

Thank you for the link on the petition.

by **Guest 5464** » January 21, 2015, 3:02 pm

Middle rouge wrote:Hello everyone, I have some important news to pass along about an important senate vote next week from the superintendent of the Great Lakes maritime academy which was posted on the "fans of know your ships" page on Facebook.

Senator john McCain has filed an amendment to the keystone xl pipeline that if passed, would repeal the US built requirements of the jones act.

Mr McCain has tried to do this before, with no success. He is trying to repeal this because most US flagged saltwater vessel involved in trades between the lower 48 and Alaska/Hawaii, or oversea territories are ancient, most dating to the early 1960s'

Do you still want to see your favorite ships floating? Do you want to help save american jobs?
Please write to your senator ASAP. Thank you

Found this link to a petition that goes to the White House:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... n/XcXP9vNw

95,105 signatures are needed by February 17th. There were less than 5,000 at last count.

by **BobG** » January 16, 2015, 8:26 am

Granted, US shipbuilding labors under restraints that don't apply elsewhere in the world. But these same restraints insure that workers enjoy wages commensurate with their job requirements and personal skills, and they are protected from arbitrary and capricious treatment by employers. We expect US workers to have these benefits.

I think the short answer has already been articulated. McCain knows nothing and probably could care less about this issue, but must pander to a faction of wealthy supporters by making periodic noise calling for Jones Act repeal. I doubt if good faith has anything to do with this weary, bitter old war horse who should just go away.

by **geysir** » January 16, 2015, 12:05 am

Jared wrote:How many ships do we build a year for commercial purposes? I know we have not built a new laker since the late 80's. It seems the only things we build are warships, barges, and tugs.

Shipyards have been busy due to the surge in oil production. I'm guessing there have been several tankers built each year for the past few years. The Aker yard will soon finish it's second 800-foot crude oil tanker for Exxon. The smaller shipyards along the Gulf of Mexico each year produce several ever-larger (300 foot) oil platform supply boats.

by **PDBLK25** » January 15, 2015, 9:38 pm

Dave F wrote:It saddens me that the American and Canadian shipping and shipbuilding industries appear to be unwilling and/or unable to compete on the world market....I merely suggest that our shipping and shipbuilding industries would be much larger and healthier with a lot more jobs if we were able to compete against foreign builders.

Dave, you have to understand that our "inability to compete" is wage, safety-law & environmental-law driven. State-of-the-art shipbuilding techniques are employed by the Chinese, Indians, S. Koreans, & many other 3rd World nations. We are no longer protected by superior technology. As soon as we figure out a better & cheaper way of doing something, it becomes used everywhere (especially in China, which has a long history of Patent Violation). Thus, to become more competitive we would have to drop wages to the level of those in China & eliminate OSHA, most Coast Guard Legislation, and the EPA. As those wages drop, they would fall in other manufacturing industries. We might then be competitive in Shipping & Shipbuilding, but also well on our way to becoming a 3rd World country.

by **Guest** » January 15, 2015, 8:52 pm

The complete lack of political support to repeal the Act means it doesn't have a snowball's chance in July of happening. Even McCain's own flippant comment about appealing to the patron saint of lost causes shows he doesn't think it will either. It's something he has to trot out once in a while so he can tell his supporters 'see, i tried'.

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