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 Post subject: Re: Manistee (carferry)
Unread postPosted: September 3, 2017, 11:22 pm 

Joined: May 9, 2010, 7:20 pm
Posts: 285
The straits ferries, being bow-loaders, used narrower slips than their cross lake counter parts. On he delivery trip to Frankfort in 1917, the Ann Arbor 6 sheared off her prop blades going thru the ice in the straits. The Sainte Marie towed her into St Ignace where she was docked at the lumber dock. The Sainte Marie then transferred 6 loaded coal hopper cars onto the No 6 in a ship-to-ship transfer where they were moved forward, which helped raise the stern enough to replace the propeller blades. The 6 was too wide at the stern to get into the loading slip at St Ignace, in addition to the fact the lake ferries used different track patterns as the straits ferries so they would not have been able to use the loading apron in any event to get the cars on board.


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 Post subject: Re: Manistee (carferry)
Unread postPosted: September 3, 2017, 2:48 pm 

Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am
Posts: 959
Looking at the aerial of the Manistee in the Chief Wawatam slip and how it fits (especially compared to the City of Milwaukee photo, that ferry just a few feet wider than the No. 3) I'd say each side of the car deck was, indeed, shaved on both sides aft for about thirty or so feet.


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 Post subject: Re: Manistee (carferry)
Unread postPosted: September 3, 2017, 1:45 pm 
That is about 6 miles from my sister's house. I have seen that area several times. Noticed what was there with what looked like tracks but did not even think cut down Lake Michigan carferry.


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 Post subject: Re: Manistee (carferry)
Unread postPosted: September 2, 2017, 10:40 pm 

Joined: December 6, 2014, 3:43 pm
Posts: 436
I forgot that she is still around. The former Manistee acts as a floating wharf and crane platform just west of the Huey P Long Bridge in New Orleans. https://binged.it/2wu1p9u

Her current stern is only about 20 feet wide, much too narrow for a four track apron. So I'm certain she was cut down at some point.

Just for the heck of it, I superimposed her current outline onto recent photos of the St. Ignace and Manistique slips. I also did the same at the old GTW slip in Milwaukee, and added the City of Milwaukee outline as well.


Attachments:
Manistee-in-St-Ignace-Slip.jpg
Manistee-in-St-Ignace-Slip.jpg [ 332.22 KiB | Viewed 694 times ]
CityofMilwaukee-in-St-Ignace-Slip.jpg
CityofMilwaukee-in-St-Ignace-Slip.jpg [ 331.77 KiB | Viewed 694 times ]
Manistee and City of Milwaukee in GTW Milwaukee Slips.jpg
Manistee and City of Milwaukee in GTW Milwaukee Slips.jpg [ 283.83 KiB | Viewed 694 times ]
Manistee in Manistique slipc.jpg
Manistee in Manistique slipc.jpg [ 293.6 KiB | Viewed 694 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Manistee (carferry)
Unread postPosted: September 2, 2017, 10:05 pm 
William Lafferty wrote:
Here's what the Manistee's stern looks like today. Perhaps it had been angled smaller.


Where is she at today?


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 Post subject: Re: Manistee (carferry)
Unread postPosted: September 2, 2017, 8:24 pm 
Just my two cents, the stern looks unchanged. The indent step at the very stern and the corners look the same in both photos.


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 Post subject: Re: Manistee (carferry)
Unread postPosted: September 2, 2017, 6:36 pm 

Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am
Posts: 959
Here's what the Manistee's stern looks like today. Perhaps it had been angled smaller.


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Ann Arbor 3.png
Ann Arbor 3.png [ 295.82 KiB | Viewed 720 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Manistee (carferry)
Unread postPosted: September 2, 2017, 6:15 pm 

Joined: December 6, 2014, 3:43 pm
Posts: 436
Thanks. I still suspect that they had to trim the stern of the Manistee.

1) A look at recent photos in Google Maps shows the slips at Mackinaw City and St. Igance are only about 20 feet wide at the end of the apron, while what remains in Elberta and Manistique are about 33 to 36 feet wide.

2) Plans for a replacement apron in Elberta from 1925 show the apron having four girders on a 5.5 foot spacing for an overall width of 23 feet 1 inch for the portion that rested on the vessels. I assume that this was a standardized dimension for all the Ann Arbor ferries, at least in later years. Given that standard gauge rails are almost 5 feet center to center (not gauge), looking at photos indicates that the aprons at the Straits were only about 15 feet wide, or roughly 8 foot narrower than the Lake Michigan aprons.

3) In the stern photo, it looks like the starboard stern could be a vertical flat plate, welded into place, instead of original hull construction.

Interestingly, the Port Authority of New York had to deal with a similar situation recently. They ordered replacement carfloats for the one remaining carfloat operation in New York Harbor, and wound up having 4 track 59 foot wide carfloats built, that narrow down at one end to fit the old slips that were designed for 3 track carfloats, roughly 40 feet wide. Ironically, Hurricane Sandy forced the reconstruction of the New Jersey slip, and the one in Brooklyn had been rebuilt just a few years prior, so both could have been built wider, but weren't.


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 Post subject: Re: Manistee (carferry)
Unread postPosted: September 2, 2017, 1:01 pm 

Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am
Posts: 959
My first thought was that the Manistee's stern had been trimmed, but I'm not so sure now. I saw nothing about any structural changes to the barge's hull, and if you look at the photograph I include of the Ann Arbor No. 3 and use the man standing between the tracks as a means of comparison the size seems about he same. Remember, too, that the Ann Arbor No. 3 was almost ten feet in beam less than the Chief Wawatam (and originally a lot shorter), although that wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with the taper of its stern compared to that of the Chief Wawatam's bow. That device does appear to be for easing the barge against the pilings into the slip. It must have been difficult for a big former Army LT like the Muskegon to shove it in, bow-to-bow.


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Ann Arbor No. 3.png
Ann Arbor No. 3.png [ 64 KiB | Viewed 926 times ]
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 Post subject: Manistee (carferry)
Unread postPosted: September 1, 2017, 11:45 pm 

Joined: December 6, 2014, 3:43 pm
Posts: 436
These three photos by Hartland Smith were recently were added to Railpictures.net, and show the Manistee (former Ann Arbor No. 3) substituting for the Chief Wawatam at the Straits in August 1965. I think it was owned by Bultema Transportation at the time.

Obviously, the track layout on the barge was modified from its Ann Arbor days since Mackinac Transportation used a different layout than the Lake Michigan ferries. But I also wonder if the stern of the barge was narrowed to fit in the slips at the Straits. And what is that round thing hanging off the starboard side of the stern? I almost wonder if it is an unused piston head being used as a roller guide, to prevent the barge from riding up on a dockwall.

Bow view http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628389/

Stern view http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628807/

Stern and apron http://www.railpictures.net/photo/628392/


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