Historical Perspective in Photos

Discussion board focusing on Great Lakes Shipping Question & Answer. From beginner to expert all posts are welcome.
Alex

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Alex »

Jon Paul, you listed the Cliffs Victory in the convoy. Which of the two boats, yours and the Victory, was better breaking ice?
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

The photos taken at LS&I Ore Dock help to show what little room deckhands have to work with while shifting a boat at a gravity dock. I was always concerned about slipping on the pellets strewn all over the 3 feet of space you have to walk on. Its a real trick to pull a heavy cable with any traction while sliding around on marbles!

I included the J L Mauthe pic because it has been on a thread here and also the shot of the Wolverine on the Calumet River in S Chicago because "ds" mentioned his working on it during the Winter of 77/78.
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wolv.jpg
a classic Tin Stacker...Homer D Williams clear of the locks and heading for another load
a classic Tin Stacker...Homer D Williams clear of the locks and heading for another load
jl.jpg
Meeting the E B Barber near Harsens Island
Meeting the E B Barber near Harsens Island
Overtaking the venerable and unique Buckeye on Mud Lake on St Mary's River
Overtaking the venerable and unique Buckeye on Mud Lake on St Mary's River
Winter loading at C & NW in Escanaba
Winter loading at C & NW in Escanaba
Mate at the winch controls as we shift at the dock
Mate at the winch controls as we shift at the dock
pres2.jpg
pres1.jpg
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

The Winter Navigation Board, which was made up of various U.S. government agencies setup to oversee the demonstration program decided to temporarily suspend shipping to and from Lake Superior on January 21, 1977, due to the severe ice conditions.

However, the Canadian government made a diplomatic request for passages of the tankers, Doan Transport, Hudson Transport and Imperial St. Clair in February 1977, so that emergency supplies of heating oil could be brought to Thunder Bay. It took over two weeks for the tankers to make a round trip from Sarnia to Thunder Bay and back, with continuous icebreaker assistance needed for most of the passage across Lake Superior.

The Cason J. Calloway, Philip R. Clarke and John G. Munson resumed official movement to and from Lake Superior on March 17, 1977.
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

For ds-

I will post later today a pic I took of the Wolverine while it was at Am Ship in S Chicago.
We were not part of the St Mary's convoy, that was the Tom Girdler.
Our original orders when we passed Ft Gratiot on 01/10/78 were for LS & I Presque Isle/Marquette. Because of the huge logjam of ships stuck in the St Mary's River we had our our orders caged to load C & NW Escanaba when we were battling the storm off Sturgeon Point.
We arrived and anchored 1/2 mile ESE of Mission Point on Mackinac Island @ 0645 on 01/11 due to extremely heavy ice from Round Island Passage to White Shoal and to wait for other boats to assemble for a convoy.
At 0715 on 1/12 we raised the anchor and led a convoy consisting of the following vessels in this order;
Roger Blough
Phillip R Clarke
Cliffs Victory
Samuel Mather
Robert C Norton
Crispin Oglebey

After an intership discussion, The Blough had seemed the logical choice to follow the White with the plan being the White would break the path and the Blough at 105' would widen it for the rest of the convoy.
At Boulder Reef we left the convoy and made course for Rock Island Passage (1405hrs)and our shortcut to Escanaba where we arrived at C&NW northside @ 1725. Wilfred Sykes was on the Southside.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

I didnt realize they took a break in 1977, I thought it went all the way to 1979.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

To a degree we do have year-round shipping on the Great Lakes. Tankers operate from Sarnia to various ports as do ships carrying salt out of Goderich on a near year-round basis - depending on demand.

What caused the popularity of year-round in the shipping community to wane, was the dramatic drop in steel production starting in the early '80s.

The Soo Locks were kept open year-round from April 2, 1974 to January 21, 1977 and from March 17, 1977 to January 15, 1980. (The Poe Lock was opened for urgent use in February 1977, so needed fuel supplies could be delivered by tankers to Thunder Bay.)

As the Poe Lock has aged, it has required more maintenance - in her early years, she had maintenance every 5 years, and the Poe could be kept open year-round. With no replacement for the old Sabin and Davis Locks, it is necessary for the Soo Locks to close for part of the winter for maintenance.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

Wonder if there would have been more support for continuing the program if they hadn't inadvertantly picked a few of the coldest winters in the last 50 or so years to try out year-round navigation.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

The Winter Navigation Demonstration program was funded by Congress passed the legislation for the Winter navigation Demonstration Program in the early 1970s, and extended it twice in order to obtain additional data. (types of ice structures and environmental).

Canada was interested in the winter navigation program for the Great Lakes, but not to the extent of the United States.

During the winter of 1977-78 the Canadian tankers, Doan Transport, Hudson Transport, and Imperial St. Clair were used to carry chemicals and fuel oil from Sarnia to Thunder Bay.

Canada Steamship Lines had their Frontenac, Jean Parisean and Louis R. Desmarais in operation (the later two primarily loading iron ore in Marquette for Algoma Steel at the Canadian Soo.)

Algoma central had a few ships in operation to haul salt out of Goderich.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

I dont remember but were there any Canadian ships in the winter nav program?
ds

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by ds »

John Paul,

Your photo of the Ft. Gratiot Lighthouse and CG Station taken January 10, 1978 stimulated an old memory. I was sailing on the MV Wolverine at that time. We had been doing trips up to Picton, Ontario (on Lake Ontario) to load ore for J&L Steel in Cleveland due to the ongoing iron ore miners’ strike in MN and MI. Soon after the 4-month-long strike was settled, we resumed our usual trips to Escanaba, Marquette, and Taconite Harbor. The 1977-78 winter was very cold and made for tough going on the Lakes and it coincided with the Winter Navigation Demonstration Program.

Somewhere around the time your Ft. Gratiot photo was taken, we ended up as the twelth vessel in a 13-ship convoy upbound transiting the extremely ice-clogged St. Marys River on our way to Tac. Harbor. The convoy was led by one of the C4s. Whatever ship was in the lead position eventually became stuck (the ice was incredibly thick with huge quantities of brash ice stacked up underwater) and we ended up ice bound for the next six + days. I think a second C4 may have also possibly been positioned in the convoy somewhere but can’t remember for sure. I do remember the John J. Boland was bringing up the rear of the convoy. Everyday we would hear reports of the gargantuan struggle upstream of us involving the Mackinaw and multiple tugs attempting to make headway, including trying to tow the C4. No such drama with the Wolverine, as the engines would be fired up every few hours in order to move slightly forward and aft to prevent the ship from getting completely frozen in but we did run very low on food and eventually had to be re-supplyed by the Mackinaw.

As a member of the forward-end crew, we spent each of those days with the conveyor crew swinging sledgehammers breaking the enormous quantity of ice that had collected on the deck and submerged the hatch crane railings. We pushed and/or lifted all the ice over the ship’s sides. Six days of this kind of labor yielded a very impressive stockpile of broken ice lining both sides of the vessel. When we started each work day, the temperature was always in the -24 to -32 degree range. Several layers of clothing and hard physical labor ensured I always remained warm. One day after work we were in the galley eating supper. The television was on and broadcasting the national news via one of the three major networks. A story about the Arctic weather gripping the Great Lakes region was featured and an aerial photo of the 13-ship convoy was included in the coverage. Very surprising!

As I remember it, a great deal of time was taken up moving the first three or four ships upstream and through the locks before things began to progress a little quicker. I was just wondering if the White was involved in this convoy and, if so, what your memories were of this experience. It was one of many I have retained from sailing during the Winter Navigation Demonstration Program that year.

ds
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Guest wrote:Mariners in the 1970s and 80s received weather information from the NWS offices through products such as LAke Weather Broadcast (LAWEB) and the MAFOR code via radio stations such as WMI-Lorain's Great Lakes VHF System (VHF channels 26,84,85,86, 87) and 409 SSB; WLC-Rogers City provided the same service on VHF channel 26 and SSB 405).

In addition, some ships had facsimile receivers in order to obtain Pressure Mean-Sea Level charts (provided by NWS Cleveland) and sent by the previously mentioned stations.

Ships that participated in the Winter Navigation Demonstration program received ice charts, again via facsimile receivers.

Storm warnings, advisories, etc were sent through WMI-Lorain and WLC-Rogers City on an as needed basis.
We used all of the services listed above and also participated as a weather reporting ship.
Notice to Mariners on VHF provided about as up to the minute as we were going to get but like all the weather info during that time period, it was genrealized and covered a larger area than was helpful at times.
Flying the signal flags was more of a tradition than informational for commercial traffic to go by.....but I can tell you that seeing that red flag with the black square in the middle flying that day was a bit surreal because it was only blowing about 15-20 kn at the time.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

Mariners in the 1970s and 80s received weather information from the NWS offices through products such as LAke Weather Broadcast (LAWEB) and the MAFOR code via radio stations such as WMI-Lorain's Great Lakes VHF System (VHF channels 26,84,85,86, 87) and 409 SSB; WLC-Rogers City provided the same service on VHF channel 26 and SSB 405).

In addition, some ships had facsimile receivers in order to obtain Pressure Mean-Sea Level charts (provided by NWS Cleveland) and sent by the previously mentioned stations.

Ships that participated in the Winter Navigation Demonstration program received ice charts, again via facsimile receivers.

Storm warnings, advisories, etc were sent through WMI-Lorain and WLC-Rogers City on an as needed basis.
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

I need to make a correction to that post. We were off Oscoda @ approximately 1700hrs. The White was fast but not that fast, especially bucking heavy seas head on.
That storm was alost identical to the storm that sank the Morrell as it started as a NÉE Gale became a NE Storm and then steadily veered more northerly till almost NW by the time we were off TBI. At that point our orders had been changed to load at Escanaba which meant we had more of a beam sea entering the Straits.
What a difference having 10k hp at your disposal to keep from falling off into the troughs and and a very solid well made hull makes in those situation.
garbear

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by garbear »

Love the shots with the huletts. I notice in the photo of the Montcliffe Hall unloading in Conneaut there is one of the USS/GLF "AAA" boats. Maybe it was the Clarke.
Bookworm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Bookworm »

1978 vs 2017: I was living in AR (tornadoes were a major concern) totally oblivious to the Great Lakes, so am wondering what kind of weather forecasting mariners had to go by. Did they rely mainly on storm flags and condition reports from other mariners? I'm spoiled with the wind barbs on Marine Traffic and frequent up-dates to NOAA. It's frigid and gusty along the shores of Lake Huron today but nothing close to what you experienced off Oscoda on your way to Marquette. I'm really enjoying your posts.
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

It was fairly calm when I took this photo upbound at Fort Gratiot Lighthouse and CG Station showing Storm Warnings flying @ 1000hr on January 10, 1978. We were bound for Marquette with N Storm Warnings and encountered steady 60+ mph winds with the hightest gusts over 70 @1300hr when we were off Oscoda, MI. Waves were averaging 18-22ft with the occasional 25 footer and had to check down to 60prm because we were pitching so heavily.
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storm.jpg
With all the talk of this being Algoway's last season, here she is on the Calumet River
With all the talk of this being Algoway's last season, here she is on the Calumet River
A beautiful day on the St Clair River
A beautiful day on the St Clair River
rep2.jpg
Under the Hullets at night - Republic Steel - S Chicago
Under the Hullets at night - Republic Steel - S Chicago
The Ocean Sovereign hit the West Pier at the Soo on Nov 15, 1976 and was taking on water and had a obvious port list.
The Ocean Sovereign hit the West Pier at the Soo on Nov 15, 1976 and was taking on water and had a obvious port list.
Montcliffe Hall unloading in Conneaut
Montcliffe Hall unloading in Conneaut
Canadian Leader approaching the Soo Locks
Canadian Leader approaching the Soo Locks
The Glossbrenner's stern can be seen on the far left of the photo
The Glossbrenner's stern can be seen on the far left of the photo
Unloading in Ashtabula
Unloading in Ashtabula
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Guest wrote:How would they know if you missed the boat if your watch wasn't for a bit did you sign on and off?
We didn't need to sign out but the mate on my watch knew I hadn't got back because I always let him know first thing back on board.
Besides, we all pretty much looked out for each other.
I'm sure other guys who sailed will agree...there were other guys on board who I didn't particularly like but if we were up town and they got in a bind, we always had the back of a shipmate.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

How would they know if you missed the boat if your watch wasn't for a bit did you sign on and off?
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

I could still kick myself for not grabbing the one onboard the White. We had just weathered a heavy storm with lots of pitching that caused the framed copy we had in the guest observation lounge to pull loose and crashed to the deck. While cleaning up the mess I seriously debated whether to stash it away and sneak it off during layup but my good upbringing got the better of me, lol.
I know of no other copies but John Belliveau who does the amazing Digital ship drawings listed on boatnerd would be a good start.
Yes, the coal from Conneaut went to Port Washington. We usually went there 4-5 times a year. I loved it there!! It's a beautiful and friendly little town and took 36 - 40+ hours to unload.
As for being in trouble for missing the boat, I had asked the Old Man's permission each time and was back an hour before the designated time.
Others occasionally missed the boat but that usually involved drinking and that was a one and done.
garbear

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by garbear »

Did the coal you loaded in Conneaut go to Port Washington? Thanks.
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