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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 9, 2017, 5:13 pm 
Here is a little variety for a Saturday night.
I included the Sparkman D Foster because William Lafferty mentioned in the E M Young thread that that is what the Young eventually became.
I also included the Willowdale for Captain who noted that Imperial Midland was converted to it in his post.
..and last but not least I included garbear's old homes..the Clarke and the Watson


Attachments:
File comment: Docked and preparing to unload at McLouth Steel - Trenton MI
white.jpg
white.jpg [ 123.13 KiB | Viewed 1418 times ]
File comment: Pinedale loading in Conneaut...we were docked and unloading pellets then would shift to the coal loader when the Pinedale finished
pinedale.jpg
pinedale.jpg [ 229.1 KiB | Viewed 1418 times ]
File comment: 1st Mate Ric Starcke and GLMA cadet Paul Brown get the mail in Dteroit
mailboat.jpg
mailboat.jpg [ 258.99 KiB | Viewed 1418 times ]
willowdale.jpg
willowdale.jpg [ 230.24 KiB | Viewed 1418 times ]
foster.jpg
foster.jpg [ 238.08 KiB | Viewed 1418 times ]
File comment: C M White is on the left, sister ship and fleetmate Tom Girdler is on the right and loading in Escanaba
esky.jpg
esky.jpg [ 197.49 KiB | Viewed 1418 times ]
File comment: C M White unloading at Cleveland Lakefront July '76
cleveland.jpg
cleveland.jpg [ 261.32 KiB | Viewed 1418 times ]
watson.jpg
watson.jpg [ 189.72 KiB | Viewed 1418 times ]
clarke.jpg
clarke.jpg [ 275.58 KiB | Viewed 1418 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 9, 2017, 4:14 pm 
I was happy to see the Marquette. My folks were keeping ship on her when I was born. Dad was a captain for Cliffs so he was assured of winter work when the fleet was in layup. Cliffs used to layup several boats in Milwaukee during the winter but didn't last long into the forties


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 9, 2017, 1:25 pm 

Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am
Posts: 1058
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Was the White built for the Bradley fleet?

Yes, launched 24 July 1915 at Lorain for the Limestone Transportation Company of Cleveland, founded 11 March 1915 to provide a ten-year charter to the Michigan Limestone & Chemical Company, Rogers City. It was named for the president of Michigan Limestone and christened by Margaret McManigal of New York City. The White was by far the largest and most advanced self-unloader on the lakes when placed in service, able to unload 11,000 tons of stone in four hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 9, 2017, 11:33 am 
Was the White built for the Bradley fleet?


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 9:24 pm 
William Lafferty wrote:
Quote:
it was interesting to see several vessels in your grouping with centered pilot houses and made me curious. Was there a benefit to positioning them there, or was it a short-lived trend in Great Lakes shipping?

I assume you mean pilothouses centered close to amidships. Each of the vessels shown with this configuration were originally intended for saltwater service. The Saginaw was a war emergency "laker" built for the United States Shipping Board as Coperas at Manitowoc in 1919, completed after the war, obviously. The Imperial Midland was originally in the South American oil trade as the Talalarite for a subsidiary of Imperial Oil, named for the city in Peru, Talara. The Captain C. D. Secord had been built as a typical ore carrier of the day as the Charles R. Van Hise in 1900 for the Bessemmer Steamship Company at Superior. It was requisitioned by the government to be sent to saltwater during World War I. It underwent extensive modification at Buffalo prior to being cut in two and brought (on its side because its beam was too wide) through the canals but with the cessation of hostilities it never made the complete trip. It was put back together but retained the basic design that had been followed during its rebuilding, with the pilothouse where you see it. Ocean vessels typically had superstructure set back from the bow to protect it from oncoming seas.

Thank you for your very informative response, Mr. Lafferty.


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 8:33 pm 
Jon Paul wrote:
garbear wrote:
Guest wrote:
The Hoyt picture is particularly interesting to me. She appears to be drafting "0" at the bow !


Think from the days when I sailed, if my memory is correct, that would be called her forefoot showing.


When there was still 2 way traffic under the Blue Water Bridge upbound boats used to pump to A + ballast weather permitting which was basically the forepeak and the next set of tanks empty. Boats with bow thrusters you could see right through the tube, lol.
After the Smith sinking and one way traffic was implemented, upbound boats would sometimes need to "tread water" below Port Huron Traffic Buoy and this required ballasting so that the bow thruster could assist in keeping the bow from falling off in the current.

..and yes garbear, I have some special Clarke and Watson shots just for you brother


You're the best, Jon Paul!!


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 7:20 pm 

Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am
Posts: 1058
Quote:
Was the Saginaw with "Buick's the Beauty on its freeboard," both: A.) a former Poker Fleet boat; and B.) probably a hauler of cars for General Motors?

It was of the same general standard design as certain of the "Poker" fleet, as I mention elsewhere here, a World War I "laker." It carried scrap steel and finished steel, but especially pig iron for GM's Saginaw Products plant at Saginaw back in the day. Saginaw Dock & Terminal was part of Oglebay Norton.


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 7:03 pm 

Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am
Posts: 1058
Quote:
it was interesting to see several vessels in your grouping with centered pilot houses and made me curious. Was there a benefit to positioning them there, or was it a short-lived trend in Great Lakes shipping?

I assume you mean pilothouses centered close to amidships. Each of the vessels shown with this configuration were originally intended for saltwater service. The Saginaw was a war emergency "laker" built for the United States Shipping Board as Coperas at Manitowoc in 1919, completed after the war, obviously. The Imperial Midland was originally in the South American oil trade as the Talalarite for a subsidiary of Imperial Oil, named for the city in Peru, Talara. The Captain C. D. Secord had been built as a typical ore carrier of the day as the Charles R. Van Hise in 1900 for the Bessemmer Steamship Company at Superior. It was requisitioned by the government to be sent to saltwater during World War I. It underwent extensive modification at Buffalo prior to being cut in two and brought (on its side because its beam was too wide) through the canals but with the cessation of hostilities it never made the complete trip. It was put back together but retained the basic design that had been followed during its rebuilding, with the pilothouse where you see it. Ocean vessels typically had superstructure set back from the bow to protect it from oncoming seas.


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 6:53 pm 
Darryl wrote:
Was the Saginaw with "Buick's the Beauty on its freeboard," both: A.) a former Poker Fleet boat; and B.) probably a hauler of cars for General Motors?

Bookworm wrote:
Jon Paul, for me, a relative newcomer to all things ships, it was interesting to see several vessels in your grouping with centered pilot houses and made me curious. Was there a benefit to positioning them there, or was it a short-lived trend in Great Lakes shipping?


Hopefully Mr Lafferty can help with this set of questions.
I know most of the Canadian tankers had the pilothouse centered in the middle of the hull and there were plenty of ships built during the WW1 Era that were called "Lakers" that were basically the same pattern as the Saginaw.


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 6:44 pm 
garbear wrote:
Guest wrote:
The Hoyt picture is particularly interesting to me. She appears to be drafting "0" at the bow !


Think from the days when I sailed, if my memory is correct, that would be called her forefoot showing.


When there was still 2 way traffic under the Blue Water Bridge upbound boats used to pump to A + ballast weather permitting which was basically the forepeak and the next set of tanks empty. Boats with bow thrusters you could see right through the tube, lol.
After the Smith sinking and one way traffic was implemented, upbound boats would sometimes need to "tread water" below Port Huron Traffic Buoy and this required ballasting so that the bow thruster could assist in keeping the bow from falling off in the current.

..and yes garbear, I have some special Clarke and Watson shots just for you brother


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 6:16 pm 
Was the Saginaw with "Buick's the Beauty on its freeboard," both: A.) a former Poker Fleet boat; and B.) probably a hauler of cars for General Motors?


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 5:43 pm 
Great photos, Jon Paul! Hopefully you've got a Clarke or Watson in your collection.


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 5:13 pm 
Guest wrote:
The Hoyt picture is particularly interesting to me. She appears to be drafting "0" at the bow !


Think from the days when I sailed, if my memory is correct, that would be called her forefoot showing.


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 2:13 pm 
Jon Paul, for me, a relative newcomer to all things ships, it was interesting to see several vessels in your grouping with centered pilot houses and made me curious. Was there a benefit to positioning them there, or was it a short-lived trend in Great Lakes shipping?


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Perspective in Photos
Unread postPosted: December 8, 2017, 1:19 pm 
Thanks for all the encouraging words. This isn't "MY" thread and my hope is that anyone and everyone who has a comment, anecdote or interesting observation will jump in and contribute so that we all can share and maybe even learn a bit.
I will endeavor to post a variety of different photos with a mix between ones taken while aboard the boats I was on, older B & W boat pics and many newer color shots taken at Port Huron after taking a shore job.


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