Historical Perspective in Photos

Discussion board focusing on Great Lakes Shipping Question & Answer. From beginner to expert all posts are welcome.
William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by William Lafferty »

Was the White built for the Bradley fleet?
Yes, launched 24 July 1915 at Lorain for the Limestone Transportation Company of Cleveland, founded 11 March 1915 to provide a ten-year charter to the Michigan Limestone & Chemical Company, Rogers City. It was named for the president of Michigan Limestone and christened by Margaret McManigal of New York City. The White was by far the largest and most advanced self-unloader on the lakes when placed in service, able to unload 11,000 tons of stone in four hours.
Alex

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Alex »

Was the White built for the Bradley fleet?
Bookworm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Bookworm »

William Lafferty wrote:
it was interesting to see several vessels in your grouping with centered pilot houses and made me curious. Was there a benefit to positioning them there, or was it a short-lived trend in Great Lakes shipping?
I assume you mean pilothouses centered close to amidships. Each of the vessels shown with this configuration were originally intended for saltwater service. The Saginaw was a war emergency "laker" built for the United States Shipping Board as Coperas at Manitowoc in 1919, completed after the war, obviously. The Imperial Midland was originally in the South American oil trade as the Talalarite for a subsidiary of Imperial Oil, named for the city in Peru, Talara. The Captain C. D. Secord had been built as a typical ore carrier of the day as the Charles R. Van Hise in 1900 for the Bessemmer Steamship Company at Superior. It was requisitioned by the government to be sent to saltwater during World War I. It underwent extensive modification at Buffalo prior to being cut in two and brought (on its side because its beam was too wide) through the canals but with the cessation of hostilities it never made the complete trip. It was put back together but retained the basic design that had been followed during its rebuilding, with the pilothouse where you see it. Ocean vessels typically had superstructure set back from the bow to protect it from oncoming seas.
Thank you for your very informative response, Mr. Lafferty.
garbear

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by garbear »

Jon Paul wrote:
garbear wrote:
Guest wrote:The Hoyt picture is particularly interesting to me. She appears to be drafting "0" at the bow !
Think from the days when I sailed, if my memory is correct, that would be called her forefoot showing.
When there was still 2 way traffic under the Blue Water Bridge upbound boats used to pump to A + ballast weather permitting which was basically the forepeak and the next set of tanks empty. Boats with bow thrusters you could see right through the tube, lol.
After the Smith sinking and one way traffic was implemented, upbound boats would sometimes need to "tread water" below Port Huron Traffic Buoy and this required ballasting so that the bow thruster could assist in keeping the bow from falling off in the current.

..and yes garbear, I have some special Clarke and Watson shots just for you brother
You're the best, Jon Paul!!
William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by William Lafferty »

Was the Saginaw with "Buick's the Beauty on its freeboard," both: A.) a former Poker Fleet boat; and B.) probably a hauler of cars for General Motors?
It was of the same general standard design as certain of the "Poker" fleet, as I mention elsewhere here, a World War I "laker." It carried scrap steel and finished steel, but especially pig iron for GM's Saginaw Products plant at Saginaw back in the day. Saginaw Dock & Terminal was part of Oglebay Norton.
William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by William Lafferty »

it was interesting to see several vessels in your grouping with centered pilot houses and made me curious. Was there a benefit to positioning them there, or was it a short-lived trend in Great Lakes shipping?
I assume you mean pilothouses centered close to amidships. Each of the vessels shown with this configuration were originally intended for saltwater service. The Saginaw was a war emergency "laker" built for the United States Shipping Board as Coperas at Manitowoc in 1919, completed after the war, obviously. The Imperial Midland was originally in the South American oil trade as the Talalarite for a subsidiary of Imperial Oil, named for the city in Peru, Talara. The Captain C. D. Secord had been built as a typical ore carrier of the day as the Charles R. Van Hise in 1900 for the Bessemmer Steamship Company at Superior. It was requisitioned by the government to be sent to saltwater during World War I. It underwent extensive modification at Buffalo prior to being cut in two and brought (on its side because its beam was too wide) through the canals but with the cessation of hostilities it never made the complete trip. It was put back together but retained the basic design that had been followed during its rebuilding, with the pilothouse where you see it. Ocean vessels typically had superstructure set back from the bow to protect it from oncoming seas.
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Darryl wrote:Was the Saginaw with "Buick's the Beauty on its freeboard," both: A.) a former Poker Fleet boat; and B.) probably a hauler of cars for General Motors?
Bookworm wrote:Jon Paul, for me, a relative newcomer to all things ships, it was interesting to see several vessels in your grouping with centered pilot houses and made me curious. Was there a benefit to positioning them there, or was it a short-lived trend in Great Lakes shipping?
Hopefully Mr Lafferty can help with this set of questions.
I know most of the Canadian tankers had the pilothouse centered in the middle of the hull and there were plenty of ships built during the WW1 Era that were called "Lakers" that were basically the same pattern as the Saginaw.
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

garbear wrote:
Guest wrote:The Hoyt picture is particularly interesting to me. She appears to be drafting "0" at the bow !
Think from the days when I sailed, if my memory is correct, that would be called her forefoot showing.
When there was still 2 way traffic under the Blue Water Bridge upbound boats used to pump to A + ballast weather permitting which was basically the forepeak and the next set of tanks empty. Boats with bow thrusters you could see right through the tube, lol.
After the Smith sinking and one way traffic was implemented, upbound boats would sometimes need to "tread water" below Port Huron Traffic Buoy and this required ballasting so that the bow thruster could assist in keeping the bow from falling off in the current.

...and yes garbear, I have some special Clarke and Watson shots just for you brother
Darryl

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Darryl »

Was the Saginaw with "Buick's the Beauty on its freeboard," both: A.) a former Poker Fleet boat; and B.) probably a hauler of cars for General Motors?
garbear

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by garbear »

Great photos, Jon Paul! Hopefully you've got a Clarke or Watson in your collection.
garbear

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by garbear »

Guest wrote:The Hoyt picture is particularly interesting to me. She appears to be drafting "0" at the bow !
Think from the days when I sailed, if my memory is correct, that would be called her forefoot showing.
Bookworm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Bookworm »

Jon Paul, for me, a relative newcomer to all things ships, it was interesting to see several vessels in your grouping with centered pilot houses and made me curious. Was there a benefit to positioning them there, or was it a short-lived trend in Great Lakes shipping?
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Thanks for all the encouraging words. This isn't "MY" thread and my hope is that anyone and everyone who has a comment, anecdote or interesting observation will jump in and contribute so that we all can share and maybe even learn a bit.
I will endeavor to post a variety of different photos with a mix between ones taken while aboard the boats I was on, older B & W boat pics and many newer color shots taken at Port Huron after taking a shore job.
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

captain wrote:I love the picture of the Imperial Midland. I was on her in 1961-62 and 63 after she was converted to the Willowdale. Probably my favourite job in all my time sailing.
Thanks Cap, I always loved seeing the Imperil tankers with their black hulls and burgandy cabins, they were so well maintained. They frequently docked at the refineries in Sarnia and their diminutive size was always such a contrast to the massive 700+ footers coming into the fleets for the US and Canada.
captain
Posts: 22
Joined: August 13, 2010, 1:16 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by captain »

I love the picture of the Imperial Midland. I was on her in 1961-62 and 63 after she was converted to the Willowdale. Probably my favourite job in all my time sailing.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

The Hoyt picture is particularly interesting to me. She appears to be drafting "0" at the bow !
Paul A
Posts: 428
Joined: June 28, 2010, 12:30 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Paul A »

Many forms that we can't see now nor for many decades. That's delightful, thanks Jon Paul!
Jon Paul

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Here are some B & W photos with a few interesting aspects. The Hoyt was just after lengthening and pre bowthruster and the Reiss is downbound in ballast and doesnt have a bow thruster yet either.
The Secord was always a favorite of mine as she reminded me of the barges of the same basic design.
Attachments
white.jpg
tate.jpg
saginaw.jpg
reiss.jpg
midland.jpg
marquette.jpg
hoyt.jpg
cdsecord.jpg
mopar tim
Posts: 151
Joined: December 6, 2014, 6:03 pm
Location: Port Huron

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by mopar tim »

Thank you for the great photos Jon Paul.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

That picture of the Cliffs Victory reminds me so much of my memories of living along the St. Clair River during the 1970s! Thanks for posting!
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