Any news update, Mi-Aviarch?

Yes, I was the guy who pronounced the torperdo tube as hard evidence that we had found PT-109. The were two other PT boats lost in that area with torpedo tubes mounted, one was lost considerably to the south near the island of Rendova, sunk in a friendly fire incident by an AAF B-25 Mitchell bomber, and the other much further north near the island of Bougainville. I had the records with me of all of the PT boats lost in World War 2 and the location of the loss. The only boat that tube could have been on was PT-109. Based on the side scan sonar penetration into the bottom, most of the hull is buried under the tube. We spent about an hour going over the tube from every angle, and I could see the mounting blocks that attached the tube to the PT boat deck were still attached to the deck. Unfortunately, that did not make it into the video.

I got harassed a bit by Bob's crew because I had the punch line saying that "this was it" rather than Bob. It was on fantastic trip.

Yes, a PT boat is bigger, but because the hull was marine mahogany plywood, the metal parts gave the best return, and they were comparable to the Fugo carraige system. We were picking up a lot of what appear to be dud 1,000 pound bombs on the bottom, based on their dimensions of 5 feet in length, and about 18 inches in diameter. We did not go near them.

With the current high frequency gear, there should not be a lot of problems locating a Fugo carraige system. The problem will be how many false targets are in the area. Also, if after looking at the sonar image, it looks like this would be a high-explosive bomb package, I would take a very cautious look at it with an ROV, and would not try in any way for a recovery. The Japanese used a lot of what I view as pretty unstable explosives during the war, especially towards the end.

One of my other duties during the PT-109 trip was functioning as the weapons and explosives expert, which is one of the reasons why I was on the trip. I serve on the Marine Forensics Panel as the explosions, explosives, weapons, and weapon effects expert.

Timerover, just watched it. I can't believe I never saw it. Good show. Were you the guy who pronounced the torpedo tube, the proper model for a PT?
One question: were there any other other PT boats that went down in the area? How did they positively ID it as 109?

A PT - Boat is still alot bigger than the carriage system of a FUGO balloon. You got me excited about the possibilities, though!

I worked with Dr. Robert Ballard, the man who located the Titanic, when he was in the Solomon Islands in the South Pacific looking for PT-109. I worked on setting up the search box, and also was the one that identified the wreck. If you watch the Search for PT-109 National Geographic TV special, you will see me. PT-109 was also a small target to search for, and the bottom geology of part of the area was a big headache, much like a Hawaii lava field, as the islands are all the peaks of volcanic mountains.

I suspect that the Lake Huron bottom will pose the different problem of a multitude of targets, each needing to be checked.

Timerover,
I am working on confirmation as we speak. It sounds like you know what your doing. I just want to ride on the boat with you if it ever gets that far!

Need chart #14860?
Check out OpenCPN free charting software (opencpn.org). Versions for Mac and PC. Load up with free NOAA charts of the Lakes and you are good to go. Note: One OpenCPN disadvantage for setting up routes on the Lakes is the inability to switch to statute miles from nautical miles.

Hmmm, that is side scan sonar and ROV depth for a search then. Assuming a 5 mile square search area, or 25 square miles, that is a minimum of 2 days of 24 hours a day side scan search, and given the small nature of the target, requiring a high frequency sweep, possibly more like 6 to 8 days, then using the ROV to check targets. With that water depth, unless there is some odd bottom geography, you could tow the ROV to each target, without having to recover it. Launching and recovery takes time, and time is money. A Seaeye Falcon portable unit would do the job nicely. The Great Lakes Naval Memorial and Museum in Muskegon has a couple of those, and a good side unit.

If you do get it confirmed. let me know. It would be an interesting target to train a side scan sonar crew on.

If you're looking at an area that's 5 miles SE of De Tour Village, the water's depth in Huron is 30-35 Fathoms according to chart #14860

While the idea of finding this thing at the bottom of the lake is intriguing, I think we're probably ahead of ourselves. I have yet to find any official records of this thing happening.
It could be that it never happened; the Aspen actually retrieved a weather balloon or a stray barrage balloon (I think they were still using those at the locks at that time) and the newspaper misprinted.. either on purpose or not.
While I will admit that I have ran into the north woods looking for plane crash sites on less information, sidescan sonar and underwater cameras, boats etc. are a little over my level of expertise. You can bet that if can can some solid info, I'll be looking for it, though!

I would definitely agree with the "needle in the haystack" problem, given the limited location data. Some of the high-end fish finders are good for side scan sonar work down to 125 feet, so if the water depth is less than that, you could avoid going to a consideralby more expensive towed side scan unit. While the metal components are not going to corrode in the area near Detour because of the cold fresh water, that is all that you have to get a return from. Depending on bottom sedimentation rates, any evidence could be buried too deep to pick up. You also have the problem that with such a small target, you are going to get a lot of false returns, each of which will have to be checked out. The best way to do that is with an underwater TV camera, rather than going through the effort of sending a diver down.

If you do find one, and it has incendiaries, you might be able to safely recover it. I say might, because I would have to first dig out my information on Japanese incendiary bombs to check on fuzing and igniting agent. If it has a high-explosive bomb, you have a major problem. Depending on the explosive in the bomb, and how well the fuze was made water-tight, you could still be dealing with an active piece of ordnance. There is an enormous amount of still live ordnance in the Solomon Islands, which is still deadly. While I was out there in 2002, I spent part of my time identifying WW2 souvenirs for the local people.

What you also might want to do is check with local area fishermen, and see if any of them have pulled something like that out of the water. I do not have a chart of Lake Huron handy, so I am not sure how deep the water would be.

You beat me to it, I was going to mention that at least two made it to Michigan.

You might want to contact the museum at Ft. Stevens, Oregon. This was the place that was shelled by a Japanese sub during WWII. It's been 9 years since I was last there, but at that time they had a lot of information about the balloon bomb program. That's where I first heard about any of them getting as far as Michigan.

Timerover,
Basically trying to confirm the incident with "official" paperwork or eyewitness account. After that, actually locating it in Lake Huron would be a next step; although I am not a diver, and this has "needle in haystack" written all over it!
Check out my website here:http://www.mi-aviationarchaeology.com/index.php?p=1_6_Balloon-Bombs-in-Michigan there are two confirmed landings of bombs or bomb componants in Michigan, details on the website.

Are you trying to locate it or just confirm the incident? I have a fair amount of information on the Japanese "Fugo" or Balloon Bombs. I did not think one had made it this far, as most of the other incidents were in the Pacific Northwest, northern Rockies, and some in the Southwest. If the bomb release mechanism failed or the bombs froze inplace, then one could make it this far, but that would mean the incendiaries would still be in place. There is also some suspicion that some of the payloads might have contained biological agents. The Japanese did have a very active biological weapons program.

I am researching an incident from June of 1945 where the USCG Aspen (WGAL-204) tracked and tried to retrieve what was believed to be a Japanese FUGO balloon bomb. Unfortunately, it sank before it could be retrieved. The Aspen was based in Sault Saint Marie, MI at the time and the balloon sank 5 miles SE of DeTour, MI.
I am basing all of this on one sentence in an August,1945 newspaper article from the Sault Evening News.
I have been in contact with the USCG historian and the National Archives to no avail. I am looking for any info regarding this incident, crew of the Aspen at this time, ship logs...anything. I was also thinking that the DeTour Reef Light keeper may have called it in so I contacted the lighthouse historical society. Any clues or suggestions on where to look would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the long winded first post and thanks for any help.