Is winter shipping justified ?

[garbear]

The South Works stayed in operation until April 1992 when it was closed for good.

[Guest]

I agree with Guest, why build new icebreakers for the ship companies to operate 12 months if possible (they will try). The fit-out of 2014 demonstrated what the managers of the shipping industry felt about ice conditions that they were forewarned. It was all about profits. U.S.S. paid shipping companies all expenses above the normal cost to bring iron ore to Gary, Buffington and South Chicago from Duluth. A 3 day trip turned into a 15 to 20 day trip. Then we the people paid for the cost of ice breaking. I know the shipping companies pay a % of each load to the government for dock maintenance in harbors that the ships use during the year. Like Guest stated, operate additional ships and reduce shipping season. Look at where the Anderson is, on a 30 day cruise from Gary to Cleveland and back to Sturgeon Bay and for what?? What a waste of money, man power and ship maintenance. It is a wonder that a ship has not been lost with these bone head decisions.

Buffington has never been an iron ore receiving port.

[Guest]

Can the U.S. Coast Guard purchase icebreakers from Finland? Would that fall under the Jones Act?

[Guest]

USS used to have an integrated mill in South Chucago until it was shut down in 1984 and subsequently dismantled. Is year-round shipping justified - yes. For the tankers that operate from Sarnia to Nanticoke, the customers think that year-round winter shipping is worth the effort and it keeps extra tanker-trailers units off Ontario roads. The trucking industry has great difficulty in getting good, qualified drivers. A lot of truck drivers are from India and an accident on the Burlington Bridge in Hamilton in August shows what poor drivers some of them are.

The only reason that the Anderson went to Conneaut in February is that a customer needed to move cargo. Great Lakes Fleet wasn't 'showing off' or being 'macho', they are in an industry where you transport cargo based on customer needs. There is no way anyone could have known that the ice conditions were so severe before hand when they struggled to enter Conneaut. Roger Blough had a similar problem in February 1979, and it took the polar-class USCG icebreaker Westwind several days to get through the ice pressure ridges. The USCG really needs to have built two polar-class icebreakers for the Great Lakes, or else purchase two from Finland, like they were planning to do in the 70s.

And that brings me to the next point.

For the past twenty years, winters on the Great Lakes, except for a couple of times, have been very mild when compared to the past. The winter of 2011-12 had ice on the lakes that were in the single digits. No way did anyone expect the winter to be so severe in 2013-14. With climate change it was thought that severe winters would be a thing of the past. A severe winter is usually followed by a mild one the following winter. Back-to-back severe winters on the Great Lakes have not been seen since 1976/77, 1977/78 and 1978/79.

[Denny]

Nighthunter I couldn't agree with you more on your comments and you said exactly what I was thinking and going to say and even more as well. Thank goodness at least the Seaway Authorities at least stopped the Fortitude tow from heading to Texas! Who knows what could've happened had they allowed that tow to take place? Talk about "boneheaded decisions there, to take a laker and try to tow it for scrap in late December all the way to Texas?" Give me a break as anyone could've seen disaster 101 happening had that tow not had been stopped! I would think that there are some very upset and angry brass with USS/GLF right now over the decision and planned trip of the Anderson. Let's hope because of this that the companies have learned their lessons the past two Winters! However, knowing them like you said it is all about profits and dollars signs as they don't care about us! My Dad once said at one time "You are just a number to people is all you are!" I don't care what people say or think as that is what you are and what ever happened to people's rights? They sure don't have them like they used to anymore. Just my thoughts and opinions only here is all!

[Guest]

USS doesn't have a steel mill in South Chicago.

[Nighthunter]

I agree with Guest, why build new icebreakers for the ship companies to operate 12 months if possible (they will try). The fit-out of 2014 demonstrated what the managers of the shipping industry felt about ice conditions that they were forewarned. It was all about profits. U.S.S. paid shipping companies all expenses above the normal cost to bring iron ore to Gary, Buffington and South Chicago from Duluth. A 3 day trip turned into a 15 to 20 day trip. Then we the people paid for the cost of ice breaking. I know the shipping companies pay a % of each load to the government for dock maintenance in harbors that the ships use during the year. Like Guest stated, operate additional ships and reduce shipping season. Look at where the Anderson is, on a 30 day cruise from Gary to Cleveland and back to Sturgeon Bay and for what?? What a waste of money, man power and ship maintenance. It is a wonder that a ship has not been lost with these bone head decisions.

[Denny]

I also wonder if opening up the locks at the Soo, Welland Canal and the Seaway in late March also is justified considering the type of Winters we've had and also all of the ice and the rough Spring we had last year and likely will again in 2015? Yes, I know that is regulations and mandatory they have to open by a set date for the locks at Soo, Welland and Seaway. However, one must not forget that last year it took the first ship up until early April and that was 10 days after the Soo opened up for 2014! I can see a repeat pattern of this and it seems that with the lack of icebreakers possibly this Spring, there doesn't seem to be a rush to fit-out like there was in 2014 unless I am wrong on this? Just looks to me like a late start this year similar to the 2014 year. This is just my opinions and thoughts only on this subject is all.

[Guest]

I'm sure this is a controversial topic but I think it's one worth discussing. We've seen two winters in a row with a lot of delay, damage and expense incurred. There's been a lot of criticism bandied around against shipping companies for pushing the season too far and the two coast guard services for not being equipped to handle the situation. Are annual cargo volumes increasing which necessitate a longer season ? Or are we seeing a smaller fleet trying to handle roughly the same volume, requiring a longer season ? Salt cargoes make up a lot of the winter movements but they could be handled during the regular season if the fleets were a little larger. Playing devil's advocate, why should our governments build more and larger ice breakers to handle winter movements when shipping companies are scrapping boats that still have life left in them ? Look at the James Norris, Algoma Transfer, Algoma Progress, American Fortitude and American Valor. Add in the John J Boland and Adam Cornelius that sat out part of 2014. By all accounts these are boats that could still haul cargo yet they're inactive or being scrapped. The season might end when it normally does in mid-January if these boats were employed. Companies are making business decisions, trying to maximize the bottom line and optimize the use of their assets. Perhaps two rough winters in a row will cause a rethink on winter operations.