new ice breaker

Discussion board focusing on Great Lakes Shipping Question & Answer. From beginner to expert all posts are welcome.
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

Guest wrote:I'd agree that another Poe size lock should be built and another large ice breaker as well. I don't think the US tax payer should be footing the bills. The days of the Soo being needed for national security are history. That title might be better applied to Silicon Valley now. To pay for all this we should start collecting tolls at the locks much like the Seaway does. There's no reason for us to to prop up failing steel companies or declining coal burning operations. The super rich who own their own fleets won't go hungry if they pay tolls.
Interesting Bernie Saunders mathematics your proposing. I guess its just like we shouldn't have propped up the failing automakers a few years ago or all the money we taxpayers have dumped into all the "Green Energy" boondoggles that have yet to produce anything at all least of all make a profit.
As for the rhetoric about the super rich owning fleets, I believe most are stockholder owned. That means the vast majority are funded by employee pensions, 401k's and small investors holding shares.
As for dumping obsolete 1000 footers, they are the most efficient boats for hauling ore and coal which is the staple of the American markets. Where are these marginally profitable companies supposed to come up with the 10's of millions of dollars to replace each of these boats? Unlike the Fed Govt, they can't just print money and squander it.
Tolls wouldn't solve the problem either, it would be like all deceptive tax schemes and hinder the economy and hamstring what little profitability there is left in the Great Lakes maritime market.
If we surrender our ability to make steel, manufacture goods with it and de-industrialize the Great Lakes region, then the Arsenal Of Democracy will have been lost and along with it, a large part of our independence and freedom.
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

Guest wrote:building a new ice breaker for the great lakes would be a waist of U S taxpayers money. The last three years we used the Canadian ice breakers to start the season because our Mack. could not work. why waist more money on a breaker that is not needed. As for a new lock - that too would be a waist of taxpayer's money. with all the hulls in layup - the need just is not there for a new lock.
I think we should build two or three Samuel Risleys for what another Mackinaw would cost.
New Guy Rick

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by New Guy Rick »

Are we voting?
Yes to the lock. If there is a major problem the economic impact is huge.

No to the Icebreaker. Sorry. I know the cost of moving stuff by water is one of the cheapest alternatives. I see a lot of the ice-breaking effort along the St. Clair River. It has to cost the US and Canadian people a ton of money. When I look at how much marine traffic is still running through the winter... it makes no sense to me.
How much did it cost to help the Anderson on her failed last run last winter?
Too may ships are heading for early layup. I think more ships should run longer in the season, preparing for a shutdown. Then shut it all down along when the Soo Locks close for the season.

My 2 cents.
Rick
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

Guest wrote:
Al wrote: if we neglect the Great Lakes infrastructure, the industries that depend on it will certainly wither.
The withering is because industry has declined, not because shipping has been neglected.
Unfortunately, the decline of the domestic steel industry can be traced back to the 1959 steel strike that allowed cheap foreign steel enter the market. Since then, the domestic steel industry has struggled to remain competitive.
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

Metal production has now shifted to electric arc furnaces, both steel and aluminum. Blast furnaces are old technology here in the USA. We are closing down the coal burning power plants by the dozens here in the USA in the cause of "the environment". Today sixty per cent of the world's steel and a lot of aluminum comes from China where the environment means nothing. There is no more need for more shipping here in the USA. The Chinese have captured our industrial production without firing a shot.
beecher
Posts: 393
Joined: May 4, 2010, 8:00 pm

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by beecher »

Yes to a new ice breaker.
Yes to a new lock.
No to the dumping of steel.
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

Marc wrote:Construction of a 2nd Poe size lock is a matter of national security and an economic catastrophe if not dealt with in the near future.

https://youtu.be/TQjyZcsVNZE
Interesting bit of propaganda. Yes, one solution is for taxpayers to pay for a new lock. Another solution is for shipowners to replace their obsolete 1000 footers with a fleet of up to date, efficient Seaway max vessels at their cost. All that shipbuilding would be great for the economy.
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

I'd agree that another Poe size lock should be built and another large ice breaker as well. I don't think the US tax payer should be footing the bills. The days of the Soo being needed for national security are history. That title might be better applied to Silicon Valley now. To pay for all this we should start collecting tolls at the locks much like the Seaway does. There's no reason for us to to prop up failing steel companies or declining coal burning operations. The super rich who own their own fleets won't go hungry if they pay tolls.
CG Bob
Posts: 72
Joined: March 20, 2010, 10:23 pm

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by CG Bob »

Red DC for Damage Control excellence
Red E for Engineering excellence
Blue E for Deck excellence
Green E for Operations
Black Circle E for Operational Readiness

The letters may have up to 3 hash marks under them, for subsequent excellence. Gold letter indicates 5th award in a row.
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

Al wrote: if we neglect the Great Lakes infrastructure, the industries that depend on it will certainly wither.
The withering is because industry has declined, not because shipping has been neglected.
Marc

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Marc »

Construction of a 2nd Poe size lock is a matter of national security and an economic catastrophe if not dealt with in the near future.

https://youtu.be/TQjyZcsVNZE
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

The down turn in coal is not cyclical. It is permenant. Coal producers are closing mines, railroads are moth balling lines.

Steel might come back but never to its former dominance.
Infrastructure improvements need to be made but not in. The form of a new ice breaker or an additional lock.

Unfortunately American great lake shippings has been in a decline since the 1980's.
What needs to be funded are dredging projects to improve the efficiency of ships by allowing them to load to their safe limits.
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

The letters DEE stand for excellence in Deck Dept. and Engineering Dept.(twice) from when the Alder went through testing by the USCG Refresher Training Team. The D should be black and the Es should be red.
garbear

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by garbear »

I also agree with Al. No matter what kind of downturn there is, there will be boats too big to use the Mac Lock. If the Poe goes out of commission for any length of time, the Midwest economy could be left in shambles.
shirlohio

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by shirlohio »

I tend to agree with you, Al.
BTW, speaking of icebreakers, do any of you know what the letters DEE on the side of the Alder's super structure stand for? Just curious. TIA
Al

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Al »

The steel, ore and lake shipping industries are cyclical. Failing to invest in infrastructure now because of layoffs and layups would be shortsighted. One thing is certain, if we neglect the Great Lakes infrastructure, the industries that depend on it will certainly wither.
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

building a new ice breaker for the great lakes would be a waist of U S taxpayers money. The last three years we used the Canadian ice breakers to start the season because our Mack. could not work. why waist more money on a breaker that is not needed. As for a new lock - that too would be a waist of taxpayer's money. with all the hulls in layup - the need just is not there for a new lock.
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

Guest wrote:The big picture of commerce on the lakes certainly doesn't warrant either a new icebreaker or a new lock at the Soo.
What is currently happening should have no bearing on the need for another Poe sized lock and bigger, better icebreakers. How soon we forget the debacles of the past 3 winters! If the Poe goes down the 1000 footers are out of business.
Guest

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by Guest »

The big picture of commerce on the lakes certainly doesn't warrant either a new icebreaker or a new lock at the Soo.
MikeCDN

Re: new ice breaker

Unread post by MikeCDN »

Honestly,

I think it's our turn, on the Canadian side, to step up and build one for the Great Lakes. The U.S. built the Mackinaw. Now our government needs to build a comparable one to assist with ice breaking.

Just my thoughts,

M.
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