Ernest T. Weir / Wilfred Sykes

[Guest]

It also looks like they switched the bow boarding ladder on the Sam Laud from the port to starboard side this year.

[Denny]

Thank Don as you are correct in that the horn was added just this year to the Sam Laud. Your pictures proved that as you can see the first one did not have it, whereas the second one does. I still think that horn just doesn't look right on her and does not appeal to me. If they were gonna put a horn on her, they should have at least considered that when they first built her in 1975 as far as her having a horn mounted at the front. Should've put one on top of the little white house on the bow or had it inserted somehow when it was first built. Just my thoughts.

[Denny]

Needless to say I had a "brain freeze as I forgot to add a few more modern ones to the mix." Let's not forget since we are on the subject of the "river-class ships" that there were three of them built in the early 1970s at the AmShip Yard in Lorain, Ohio and all three of them are about the same in appearance although, I am sure that they are some differences. The Calumet, Manitowoc and the Robert S. Pierson were all built in Lorain from 1973-1974 as the William R. Roesch later the David Z. Norton and the Manitowoc as the Paul Thayer later Earl W. Oglebay. The Robert S. Pierson was built as the Wolverine in 1974 for Oglebay Norton and sailed for them until being sold to Lower Lakes in 2008 when it was then renamed Robert S. Pierson and reflagged to Canadian registry.

[Don_Detloff]

Another new and added feature to the Sam Laud is this year they have now put a new horn in front of the forward watch house and I know in the past and if you look at the photos of her, "She never had this horn on the watch house before 2015!" Also, no offense but they should have just let it be as now she looks ugly and just don't look right and fit right having that huge monster horn sit out in front of that watch house on the bow. None of the other Bay Ship vessels have a horn in front of the forward watch tower so I have to ask "Why then did they add the horn out in front for the Sam Laud this year?" Just my thoughts and opinions only is all!

Denny -

Looks like the horn was added this year. The first photo is at the Algonac State Park on 1/13/2015 and the second was at the same location on 8/2/2015.

- Don

[hayhugh3]

they have now put a new horn in front of the forward watch house and I know in the past and if you look at the photos of her, "She never had this horn on the watch house before 2015!" Also, no offense but they should have just let it be as now she looks ugly and just don't look right and fit right having that huge monster horn sit out in front of that watch house on the bow.

The further that horn is away from the sleeping quarters the more the crew will like it.

[Wheelsman]

Wouldn't the Frank A. Sherman fit in with the Seaway Queen and the Scott Misener 3?

[Guest]

The Great Republic was originally built as the American Republic and optimized for navigating the confines of the Cuyahoga River. This was necessary as the ship's intended purpose was to ferry taconite from Republic's transshipment terminal at nearby Lorain to the steel maker's mill at Cleveland. Although fitted with several features to serve this purpose, the vessel was also designed to operate efficiently outside of the shuttle trade and was therefore not a single-purpose vessel. I would have to pull out the engineering paper written on its construction, but I would imagine that the hull was based (or at least influenced) upon the river class vessels built for ASC during the late 1970s.

[Denny]

Another new and added feature to the Sam Laud is this year they have now put a new horn in front of the forward watch house and I know in the past and if you look at the photos of her, "She never had this horn on the watch house before 2015!" Also, no offense but they should have just let it be as now she looks ugly and just don't look right and fit right having that huge monster horn sit out in front of that watch house on the bow. None of the other Bay Ship vessels have a horn in front of the forward watch tower so I have to ask "Why then did they add the horn out in front for the Sam Laud this year?" Just my thoughts and opinions only is all!

[Guest]

The forecastle on the Courage is also different from the Laud and Buffy. The one on the courage is higher. The Deck inside the forecastle is the same height as the spar deck on the courage. On the Laud and Buffy the deck is a number of steps down, thus reducing the height of the forecastle.

In adding to the list earlier of some of the ships and vessels that are slightly similar, here is a short list of my own of some of them. These are mostly the newer vessels though not so much the older ones that were mentioned in the list below and earlier in a post. Here is my short list of some of the close sisters.

Sam Laud, Buffalo, American Courage. A slight and very noticeable difference here, the American Courage does not have a forward white house on the bow where the Laud and Buffalo do. Also, many may know the Great Republic is considered a river-class but she too has many and several differences appearance wise than the others I have listed.

CSL Niagara, CSL Laurentien, Rt. Hon. Paul J. Martin along with the CSL Assinboine. There is a difference here as the Assiniboine cargo section and appearance is different than her sisterships and then there are the new Equinox-class ships as they are all the same except the CWB Marquis is owned by CWB Inc. and has their stack and logos painted. The new Trillium self-unloaders for CSL and their gearless bulk carriers as well. These are some of the more modern vessels that are similar in appearance to some of their fleetmates and sisterships. I hope that this has helped some.

[Denny]

In adding to the list earlier of some of the ships and vessels that are slightly similar, here is a short list of my own of some of them. These are mostly the newer vessels though not so much the older ones that were mentioned in the list below and earlier in a post. Here is my short list of some of the close sisters.

Sam Laud, Buffalo, American Courage. A slight and very noticeable difference here, the American Courage does not have a forward white house on the bow where the Laud and Buffalo do. Also, many may know the Great Republic is considered a river-class but she too has many and several differences appearance wise than the others I have listed.

CSL Niagara, CSL Laurentien, Rt. Hon. Paul J. Martin along with the CSL Assinboine. There is a difference here as the Assiniboine cargo section and appearance is different than her sisterships and then there are the new Equinox-class ships as they are all the same except the CWB Marquis is owned by CWB Inc. and has their stack and logos painted. The new Trillium self-unloaders for CSL and their gearless bulk carriers as well. These are some of the more modern vessels that are similar in appearance to some of their fleetmates and sisterships. I hope that this has helped some.

[GuestA]

Fleetmate to the Sykes, the Philip D. Block, received a new wheelhouse and captain quarters in 1951 that looked much like the Sykes.

[GuestA]

As is posted the Sykes and the Weir are very much alike yet still some differences. The Sykes is 678 feet long and has always burned oil where as the Weir was 690 feet long and originally burned coal. U.S. boats built after the Sykes that had similar wheelhouse and captain quarters arrangement: Tom M. Girdler, Troy H. Browning (Thomas F. Patton), Charles M. White, Charles L. Hutchinson (Ojibway), Edward B. Greene, though not as pronounced captain quarters (Kaye E. Barker), Joseph H. Thompson, Armco (American Valor), Ernest T. Weir (American Fortitude), George M. Humphrey, John Sherwin, Herbert C. Jackson, Shenango II (James Oberstar), and Edward L. Ryerson. Just to name a few.

[Guest]

What other ships were related? There's a few lakers past & present that have a similar look to the forward superstructure & pilothouse design like the Humphry, & the Oberstar.

Here's some more.

Arthur B. Homer and Edmund Fitzgerald

Quebecois, Montrealais, Canadian Miner, Algosound, Algogulf, Algoriver

Simcoe, Phoenix Star, Rimouski

Scott Misener (3), Seaway Queen

Arthur M. Anderson, Reserve, Cason J. Calloway, Phillip R. Clarke, J.L Mauthe, William Clay Ford, Armco

Buckeye, Michipicoten

Windoc, Cedarglen

Tadoussac, Algosoo

Algorail, Algoway, Roy A. Jodrey, Agawa Canyon

Manitoba, Vandoc

Algoma Olympic, Algoma Progress

Mapleglen, Canadian Voyager

Canadian Hunter, Canadian Mariner

And countless others.

Add the Kaye E. Barker to the Anderson list and Cartiercliffe Hall(Algontario) to your Windoc, Cedarglen list.

I knew the Barker was AAA, but wasn't sure if she counted since her appearance is rather different upfront and I knew there was a third in the Windoc and Cedarglen list but I couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks for the corrections.

[Darryl]

McCarthy, Indiana Harbor, American Integrity, American Century, and the Burns Harbor. Only differences are from the fourth deck up on the superstructure. Maybe lengths of the unloading boom, I think.

[garbear]

What other ships were related? There's a few lakers past & present that have a similar look to the forward superstructure & pilothouse design like the Humphry, & the Oberstar.

Here's some more.

Arthur B. Homer and Edmund Fitzgerald

Quebecois, Montrealais, Canadian Miner, Algosound, Algogulf, Algoriver

Simcoe, Phoenix Star, Rimouski

Scott Misener (3), Seaway Queen

Arthur M. Anderson, Reserve, Cason J. Calloway, Phillip R. Clarke, J.L Mauthe, William Clay Ford, Armco

Buckeye, Michipicoten

Windoc, Cedarglen

Tadoussac, Algosoo

Algorail, Algoway, Roy A. Jodrey, Agawa Canyon

Manitoba, Vandoc

Algoma Olympic, Algoma Progress

Mapleglen, Canadian Voyager

Canadian Hunter, Canadian Mariner

And countless others.

Add the Kaye E. Barker to the Anderson list and Cartiercliffe Hall(Algontario) to your Windoc, Cedarglen list.

[lahey]

What other ships were related? There's a few lakers past & present that have a similar look to the forward superstructure & pilothouse design like the Humphry, & the Oberstar.

Here's some more.

Arthur B. Homer and Edmund Fitzgerald

Quebecois, Montrealais, Canadian Miner, Algosound, Algogulf, Algoriver

Simcoe, Phoenix Star, Rimouski

Scott Misener (3), Seaway Queen

Arthur M. Anderson, Reserve, Cason J. Calloway, Phillip R. Clarke, J.L Mauthe, William Clay Ford, Armco

Buckeye, Michipicoten

Windoc, Cedarglen

Tadoussac, Algosoo

Algorail, Algoway, Roy A. Jodrey, Agawa Canyon

Manitoba, Vandoc

Algoma Olympic, Algoma Progress

Mapleglen, Canadian Voyager

Canadian Hunter, Canadian Mariner

And countless others.

[Guest]

The Burton was built as a coal burner too... Not sure about the Sykes

[Guest]

The George M. Humphrey was built in the drydock at Lorain, while John Sherwin and Shenango II were built in the drydock at Toledo. Interestingly, both Sherwin and Shenango Ii were too long for the drydock, and as a result they were built up to the fore peak bulkhead. After the drydock was flooded, they were moved back a few feet and the final lower bow segment was welded in place. Final welding of the lower bow segment didn't occur until after sea trials, and they underwent a pre-delivery drydocking in Lorain.

The George M. Humphrey had larger hatches, than the Sherwin and Shenango II. They were also grouped together, so that they could be stacked above the cargo-hold bulkheads during loading and unloading operations, like many of the Canadian 730-footers of the 60s.

[garbear]

Not related to any of the boats listed, but we had the 8 "AAA" boats. Clarke, Anderson, Callaway, Mauthe, William Clay Ford, Reserve, American Valor, and the Kaye E. Barker.

[pcolachap]

I have made trips on both of these vessels. I feel the E. T. Weir was more comfortable for both crew and passenger quarters. My trip on the Weir was in '74. So that was back in the day & things were kept up much better. Dad was relief Captain that summer. In '09? I made a trip on the Sykes. Very comfortable, but with the changing of the times not the same experience as the E. T. Both beautiful, wonderful ships. I was very sorry to hear of the American Fortitudes' sale for scrap. Regards, Mike