Ship Operators Explore Autonomous Sailing

[Colin]

Easy to stop hackers??? LOL.. just ask the 550 milion,, YES, 550 million or more past guests of MARRIOT hotels if their info was secure from hackers.....

The Marriott breach is hardly a relevant comparison as their system would be (necessarily) accessible via the internet. I am pretty sure no one is suggesting the the connections to autonomous ships be internet based, they would likely be a proprietary closed system. Not immune to security issues, of course, but hardly a major factor on whether the unmanned ship is viable or not.

[Guest]

A computer in almost every home - that's beyond belief.
a personal portable telephone for everybody - what for ?
LCD televisions with high definition color - who needs one ?
everyone knows that not much will change in the next 10-20 years - just the same old stuff - right ? don't bet your last penny on it !

Controlling a large vessel is a totally different category. For one, who does damage control when cargo shifts or the ship catches on fire? Then there is the fine maneuvering to go alongside a dock. And yes, they will be targeted by hackers.

.

Isolating systems from hackers, not difficult at all. Automated fire control systems? These are already found in data centers, and they've made great strides in targeted fire control instead of soaking everything. Shifting cargo? How often does human intervention actually assist in that? Who's to say a machine couldn't position the cargo in a more efficient and stable manner than humans?

And the whole "fine maneuvering" argument, truckers say the same thing. What you're controlling is indifferent. I worked on gyro systems that kept within 1" of target in all seas only needing an external fix every 2 weeks. That was early 90s technology. Late 2000s technology I watched unmanned helicopters lose communication to server and _still_ make it back to its moving flight deck of roughly 25x35ft.


Technology is here guys

Easy to stop hackers???? LOL.. just ask the 550 milion,, YES, 550 million or more past guests of MARRIOT hotels if their info was secure from hackers. This time the online thieves even got passport info.. our military faces hacking threats everyday ... do you really think cost conscious shipping companies are going to install the best anti hack systems ans keep it updated? I doubt it. Sure, the technology will make it possible to do this. I believe Japan has a super tanker operating on mostly computers but they still have a skeleton crew aboard. This total automation technology that in some ways , is marvelous, just brings about a new set of problems and costs rather than the ones encountered with human employees. Finally, I have been an independent trucker for 38 years. Yes, they can make a computer drive the truck down the road and even program it to operate in close spaces. What does it do when the blizzard stops it in its tracks on I 80 in the middle of Wyoming in Jan.? They will still need that driver in the vehicle, and, no, he won’t work any cheaper.. sailors will still be onboard vessels no matter how great the technology

[Guest]

Yes, it will happen. Trying to understand why is a different matter! Why is it so important to put people out of work? Driverless taxis, driverless trucks, unmanned ships, reduced crews, automated assembly lines; these are all designed to boost profits only. One day there will be no one left to buy products as everyone will be unemployed.

What would really help is automated & unmanned boardrooms.

[Shirtofgreen]

A computer in almost every home - that's beyond belief.
a personal portable telephone for everybody - what for ?
LCD televisions with high definition color - who needs one ?
everyone knows that not much will change in the next 10-20 years - just the same old stuff - right ? don't bet your last penny on it !

Controlling a large vessel is a totally different category. For one, who does damage control when cargo shifts or the ship catches on fire? Then there is the fine maneuvering to go alongside a dock. And yes, they will be targeted by hackers.

.

Isolating systems from hackers, not difficult at all. Automated fire control systems? These are already found in data centers, and they've made great strides in targeted fire control instead of soaking everything. Shifting cargo? How often does human intervention actually assist in that? Who's to say a machine couldn't position the cargo in a more efficient and stable manner than humans?

And the whole "fine maneuvering" argument, truckers say the same thing. What you're controlling is indifferent. I worked on gyro systems that kept within 1" of target in all seas only needing an external fix every 2 weeks. That was early 90s technology. Late 2000s technology I watched unmanned helicopters lose communication to server and _still_ make it back to its moving flight deck of roughly 25x35ft.


Technology is here guys

[Mr Link]

Like it or not, it seems like a big step forward was recently made for autonomous sailing. A 270 foot long Norwegian ferry sailed from dock to dock with no human intervention, other than someone pushing the button labeled "Sail".

https://gcaptain.com/visiting-three-por ... in-norway/



https://www.marinelog.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=226

Route map is from Marine Traffic

[Timerover51]

A computer in almost every home - that's beyond belief.
a personal portable telephone for everybody - what for ?
LCD televisions with high definition color - who needs one ?
everyone knows that not much will change in the next 10-20 years - just the same old stuff - right ? don't bet your last penny on it !

Controlling a large vessel is a totally different category. For one, who does damage control when cargo shifts or the ship catches on fire? Then there is the fine maneuvering to go alongside a dock. And yes, they will be targeted by hackers.

[Colin]

I know when I was working on a couple commercial ships I quite often found myself thinking "why the hell is this task not automated yet?".
Full automation may be further off for ships than other types of transport but it is certainly on the way. And the great lakes will start to catch up with the saltwater ships.

[ed]

A computer in almost every home - that's beyond belief.
a personal portable telephone for everybody - what for ?
LCD televisions with high definition color - who needs one ?
everyone knows that not much will change in the next 10-20 years - just the same old stuff - right ? don't bet your last penny on it !

[Guest]

No point in sticking your head in the sand, someone will just kick your...
In other words don't fool yourself into thinking this won't or can't happen on the Great Lakes. It will. Its just a matter of time, sensors and communications. Autonomous cars will bring all that technology out of the labs. Once the general public and governments have confidence in the cars, it won't be long until its on ships. If a car can be taught to deal with what is thrown at it, ships will also.

[Guest]

Interesting idea but I don't think insurance companies would allow it one grounding and they'd be out. Also I remember reading when the Michigan/Great Lakes tug barge or M/T Saturn came out it was supposed to have a completely automated engine room but the unions fought tooth and nail to keep a watch stander in there. I can also imagine the hacking possibilities ever see that horrible 90's movie "Hackers" that had a similar plot but with Tankers.

That's what I thought of too. 'The Plague' hijacks 5 tankers in the Ellingson fleet and tries to capsize them, but the hackers of the world unite and crash 'teh Gibson', foiling his plan.

Hah, I say "horrible" but it's horrible as in I'll watch it every-time and laugh at the mid-90's.

"You're Zero Cool??!"

[Odysseus]

That won't happen on the lakes anytime soon

Agreed. The drama we witnessed this past summer about a replicated wooden Viking sailing vessel needing a pilot to transit our inland seas should confirm this. How could anyone ever imagine an automated saltie that's 6 to 7 times as long and drawing a much deeper draft, even when in ballast, ever being allowed to navigate our Great Lakes without a crew let alone a pilot? While it might serve well on open waters, especially in the ocean, automated systems would be virtually worthless on the Great Lakes.

[Guest]

Interesting idea but I don't think insurance companies would allow it one grounding and they'd be out. Also I remember reading when the Michigan/Great Lakes tug barge or M/T Saturn came out it was supposed to have a completely automated engine room but the unions fought tooth and nail to keep a watch stander in there. I can also imagine the hacking possibilities ever see that horrible 90's movie "Hackers" that had a similar plot but with Tankers.

That's what I thought of too. 'The Plague' hijacks 5 tankers in the Ellingson fleet and tries to capsize them, but the hackers of the world unite and crash 'teh Gibson', foiling his plan.

[Guest]

Interesting idea but I don't think insurance companies would allow it one grounding and they'd be out. Also I remember reading when the Michigan/Great Lakes tug barge or M/T Saturn came out it was supposed to have a completely automated engine room but the unions fought tooth and nail to keep a watch stander in there. I can also imagine the hacking possibilities ever see that horrible 90's movie "Hackers" that had a similar plot but with Tankers.

[Darryl]

I was talking to a SUP port agent in L.A. a few years ago and he said Maersk had a huge container ship with a crew of six. Not too many poker games, I guess...

[Chris M]

That won't happen on the lakes anytime soon

[RCRVRP]

More automation will enable them to optimize use of cargo vessels, cut fuel consumption and labor costs.

"All hands on deck may become a thing of the past.

Ship designers, their operators and regulators are gearing up for a future in which cargo vessels sail the oceans with minimal or even no crew. Advances in automation and ample bandwidth even far offshore could herald the biggest change in shipping since diesel engines replaced steam.

Ship operators believe more automation will enable them to optimize ship use, including cutting fuel consumption. “The benefit of automation is as an enabler of further efficiency across the 630 vessels we operate,” said Palle Laursen, head of Maersk Line Ship Management, a unit of cargo-ship giant A.P. Moeller-Maersk A/S."

More information and video.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ship-operat ... 1472635800