Photo Collection

ds · Unread post by ds » July 22, 2017, 6:30 pm

Garbear,

Do you have a date for the photos of the White leaving Conneaut? She's looking pretty new in those images. I was a member of her original crew, leaving the Oglebay in Milwaukee and travelling to Sturgeon Bay in May of 1979 for sea trials. If those shots were taken in 1979, I was aboard her leaving port although I don't see myself in any of the three photos. Enjoying the images of the ships that were sailing in the 70's. Was a member of the craneship Buckeye's crew for the 1978 season, her final with Columbia. Hoping to see some images of her if you have any! Thanks!

DS

Darryl · Unread post by **Darryl** » July 22, 2017, 5:20 pm

So the J.L. Mauthe even though it was a AAA had a smaller second deck at the stern than the Anderson? Is the galley on the spar deck on the Mauthe?

garbear · Unread post by **garbear** » July 22, 2017, 4:56 pm

A couple more for today.

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » July 22, 2017, 3:44 pm

Skip Gillham in a soft-cover book called "The Changing Seaway" mentioned that in 1978, the Charles M. White burned 28.7 gallons of fuel per lake mile, 480.2 gallons an hour and 8,905 gallons a day. While in port she burned 195.2 gallons of fuel an hour.

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » July 22, 2017, 10:43 am

So, I am assuming that with all of that speed that the Republic boats had, were they also fuel hogs which ultimately led to their demise? I would think that physical size and lack of unloading gear are issues that could have been corrected or were the hulls not easily converted to conveyors? Were there other issues with the conversion design like poor sight lines, handling and etc.?

Paul A · Unread post by **Paul A** » July 21, 2017, 10:51 pm

I enjoy your shots garbear and it's cool to see the shoreside equipment that's there no longer also!

garbear · Unread post by **garbear** » July 21, 2017, 5:19 pm

Try a few more.

garbear · Unread post by **garbear** » July 21, 2017, 4:43 pm

If everyone had noticed my post at 8:50 this morning I said it was the Johnstown. Found a photo after she had entered the harbor that I put her name on.

Old I Beamer · Unread post by **Old I Beamer** » July 21, 2017, 3:45 pm

That is the Johnstown most definitely. She had her name on a white band on the hatch crane. On the Sparrows Point the name was welded on the top of the crane in around 18 inch letters cut out of steel. If I remember right our crane was gray and the letters were painted yellow.

Darryl · Unread post by **Darryl** » July 21, 2017, 3:28 pm

I remember as a deckhand, we ran out of green paint once so we used black instead. The Bos'n made us repaint it as soon as made port and picked up some more green paint.

That reminds me of once on an Old Steinbrenner boat that was brought over from another fleet, we were told: Paint that stack green. The Mate figured we did not have enough of that dark Kinsman Marine green, so he mixed it with some other paints, and after it dried it was definitely a nice lime green. But for those of you that know, it could be kind of a budget operation on those boats.

Duluth Guest · Unread post by **Duluth Guest** » July 21, 2017, 1:25 pm

The white band on the hatch crane visible in the photo was absent on the the Sparrows Point. I cannot tell if the vessel's name was ever painted on that band but I suspect it was. Also, both the Arthur B. Homer and the Johnstown had their aft mast, which is directly in front of the stack, painted yellow on it's lower half and black on it's upper half. This too is visible in front of the shadow cast by the mast onto the stack. The Sparrow's point had her mast painted all black.

I realize that these are paint features that can change but once they are set, deckhand crews rarely paint things in a different color than they already are,..unless of course, they run out of paint or the boat changes fleets.

I remember as a deckhand, we ran out of green paint once so we used black instead. The Bos'n made us repaint it as soon as made port and picked up some more green paint.

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » July 21, 2017, 9:07 am

Adding to my earlier post about the Bethlehem ship, it appears that in pictures from the 1970s that the Johnstown had some sort of extensions added to each side of its hatch crane which do not appear to be duplicated on the Sparrows Point. Again, from the posted image it is impossible to see if the ship in question has these extensions. After running the image through several processes in Photoshop it does, however, appear that there is the slightest hint of the name not extending as far forward as that of the Sparrows Point which leads me to believe that this may in fact be the Johnstown. A review of period photographs show the names start in the same location on the starboard side both ships but end in different locations in relation to the portholes.

garbear · Unread post by **garbear** » July 21, 2017, 8:50 am

Ray wrote:That picture during the grain handlers strike must have been pretty early on, or a very narrow shot. Somewhere buried away I have an article from the Minneapolis Tribune (Pre Star Tribune days) with a picture showing something over 30 ships at anchor out in the lake toward the end of the strike.

Any idea which Bethlehem Steel boat that is coming in in that picture?

I didn't use a wide angle lens, so yes it was a very narrow shot. The Bethlehem boat was the Johnstown.

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » July 21, 2017, 7:21 am

Ray wrote:That picture during the grain handlers strike must have been pretty early on, or a very narrow shot. Somewhere buried away I have an article from the Minneapolis Tribune (Pre Star Tribune days) with a picture showing something over 30 ships at anchor out in the lake toward the end of the strike.

Any idea which Bethlehem Steel boat that is coming in in that picture?

The Bethlehem Steel ship is either the Johnstown or Sparrows Point. I'm assuming this picture was taken during the grain handlers strike from July to later September 1979. In October of 1979 the Sparrows Point arrived at Fraser Shipyards to be converted into a self-unloader while the Johnstown sailed until 1981 when it laid up for the final time. As the picture of the William Clay Ford accompanying this group of photographs shows it in its lengthened form which took place at Fraser in 1979, I'm also assuming that the shot is from the same period as that of the Bethlehem boat. The Ford loaded its first cargo after lengthening on June 3, 1979.

Using the above mentioned dates it is possible to theorize that if the picture is prior to October 1979 than the Bethlehem ship could be either the Johnstown or Sparrows Point, but after that time it could only be the Johnstown. With the strike ending in September, I believe it would have taken several weeks to clear the backlog of ships waiting to load. From zooming in on the image I cannot easily determine the length of the vessel's name which would quickly lay this question to rest. Furthermore, I don't believe that either vessel had any distinguishing features that are useful at this distance. I would assume that there is some record somewhere of vessel arrivals at Duluth that could possibly clear this up.

Duluth Guest · Unread post by **Duluth Guest** » July 21, 2017, 7:16 am

Ray wrote: Any idea which Bethlehem Steel boat that is coming in in that picture?

Looks like the Johnstown to me. I don't believe it's the Sparrows Point.

Ray · Unread post by **Ray** » July 21, 2017, 2:06 am

That picture during the grain handlers strike must have been pretty early on, or a very narrow shot. Somewhere buried away I have an article from the Minneapolis Tribune (Pre Star Tribune days) with a picture showing something over 30 ships at anchor out in the lake toward the end of the strike.

Any idea which Bethlehem Steel boat that is coming in in that picture?

Ray · Unread post by **Ray** » July 21, 2017, 2:01 am

Dang, I sure miss the Ford and Cleveland Cliffs Fleets!

garbear · Unread post by **garbear** » July 21, 2017, 1:00 am

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:I still think it could be 1976-77. Could the Joseph S. Young be operating on the coal run from Toledo to Detroit, considering that only she and the Hutchinson are discharging water through overboard discharges?

Perhaps Joseph S. Young temporarily layed up at Ecorse for repairs. It was a tough winter for ships on the coal run that year. (of course, as it was in other areas of the lakes, too)

I'm left scratching my head on this one. I do know the Young was laid-up for the final time in 1977 in Toledo, so this cannot be 1977-78.
I think the photo of the Townsend in bicentennial colors was taken right after I took the Nicholson shot.

Second quote was mine.

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » July 20, 2017, 8:23 pm

Guest wrote:I still think it could be 1976-77. Could the Joseph S. Young be operating on the coal run from Toledo to Detroit, considering that only she and the Hutchinson are discharging water through overboard discharges?

Perhaps Joseph S. Young temporarily layed up at Ecorse for repairs. It was a tough winter for ships on the coal run that year. (of course, as it was in other areas of the lakes, too)

I'm left scratching my head on this one. I do know the Young was laid-up for the final time in 1977 in Toledo, so this cannot be 1977-78.

I think the photo of the Townsend in bicentennial colors was taken right after I took the Nicholson shot.

garbear · Unread post by **garbear** » July 20, 2017, 8:19 pm

I think I'll be going out of sequence with my photos. I think there might be an album or two at my ex-wife's. I'll have to get my son to look around to see what he can find. Here are a few more photos.