Historical Perspective in Photos

Discussion board focusing on Great Lakes Shipping Question & Answer. From beginner to expert all posts are welcome.
William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by William Lafferty »

I'm not sure about the Conquest
Almost certainly the Susan W. Hannah, now the Bradshaw McKee.
Jon Paul
Posts: 888
Joined: December 14, 2017, 8:37 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

E J B wrote:Trying to use my phone right now so hard to see names. What tugs are pushing the Mkee and the Conquest ? Thank you.. I'm staring at those pictures so hard I might throw my back out !
It's the Olive Moore with the McKee Sons, I'm not sure about the Conquest
Jon Paul
Posts: 888
Joined: December 14, 2017, 8:37 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Guest wrote:The Triplets had very high rails for the hatch crane. Typically they would mounted closer to deck level. How did the deck crew feel about them ? Great shots !
Having worked the deck I can tell you it wasn't really an issue. The hatches themselves were higher and that made it easier on the back when doing clamps.
The other boats I had decked on had telescoping hatches, one had over 30+. Having only 15 hatches and an Iron Deckhand made the White an easy boat to work.
The ones that look like a pain to work now are the Canadian ones. All the extra stantcions and safety chains running just outside the hatch combing look like they would get in the way
E J B

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by E J B »

Trying to use my phone right now so hard to see names. What tugs are pushing the Mkee and the Conquest ?? Thank you..... I'm staring at those pictures so hard I might throw my back out !
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

The Triplets had very high rails for the hatch crane. Typically they would mounted closer to deck level. How did the deck crew feel about them ? Great shots !
Jon Paul
Posts: 888
Joined: December 14, 2017, 8:37 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Trip #10
June 2, 1978 inbound Duluth to load at DM&I #1 - McCook Fine Red Ore for Ashtabula A&B Dock

I posted the photo of the George Hindman as a bit of nostalgia. I was very lucky to spend my weekends at Port Huron as a young lad in the '60's..never knowing what you might see. A CSL package frieghter with a deckload of cars and trucks, the tug Linda Hindman towing the barge Swederope...or a deck load of pulpwood...ahhh, those were the days!!
Attachments
dul6.jpg
dul5.jpg
dul4.jpg
dul3.jpg
dul2.jpg
Harry Allen at the scrap dock after Fire
Harry Allen at the scrap dock after Fire
mckee2.jpg
mckee1.jpg
Transiting the Straits of Mackinac - 1992<br />Taken from the USCGC Mackinaw
Transiting the Straits of Mackinac - 1992
Taken from the USCGC Mackinaw
med2.jpg
Barge Buckeye laidup up in Marinette WI 1992
Barge Buckeye laidup up in Marinette WI 1992
Forward cabins off the Joe Thompson on deck
Forward cabins off the Joe Thompson on deck
buc3.jpg
Note the crew members on top of pulp wood load
Note the crew members on top of pulp wood load
St Clair River 1958
St Clair River 1958
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

Jon Paul wrote:
Guest wrote:Hello Jon Paul, Did the White and its sisters have any unique handling characteristics as being saltwater conversions in comparison to a purpose built lake freighter? I seem to recall reading that this class was involved in several minor incidents during their early careers.
I'm not sure about the incidents your speaking of.
The large stack and 3 tier forward cabins created a lot of sail plane that had to be taken into account.
I also heard that for the new Captains and Mates coming aboard that after being on 1600 -2000 hp
Boats that there was a learning curve to handling and maneuvering the boats.
There were instances before the speed limits were put in place on the connecting river systems
Where during the process of overtaking another ship some serious shoreline flooding occured.
I do know first hand however that Capt Long was very adamant about using a minimum amount of wheel when In Ballast and departing a dock. The salt water stern with its sweeping flare easily could swing over a dock and endanger the rather large propeller. I was to wait for the mate to give an "all clear" indicating that the stern was a safe distance off the dock before giving anymore than 5 degrees rudder.
From a quick look, it appears that after being involved in several incidents during their early careers, a lot of these early difficulties appear to have been ironed out by the time they entered the Cleveland Cliffs fleet. I have compiled a short, but by no means complete. listing of the accidents I was referring too.

Tom M. Girdler
Collision: 1962
Grounding:1954, 1959
Struck Submerged Object: 1955
Struck Dock: 1956

Thomas F. Patton (Troy H. Browning)
Struck Submerged Object: 1956
Struck Dock: 1955 (2 instances)

Charles M. White
Collision: 1962
Grounding: 1963
Struck Submerged Object: 1954 (2 instances)
Struck Dock: 1954, 1955
Rubbed bottom: 1954 (2 instances), 1955
Allision with docked ships: 1954
Jon Paul
Posts: 888
Joined: December 14, 2017, 8:37 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Guest wrote:Hello Jon Paul, Did the White and its sisters have any unique handling characteristics as being saltwater conversions in comparison to a purpose built lake freighter? I seem to recall reading that this class was involved in several minor incidents during their early careers.
I'm not sure about the incidents your speaking of.
The large stack and 3 tier forward cabins created a lot of sail plane that had to be taken into account.
I also heard that for the new Captains and Mates coming aboard that after being on 1600 -2000 hp
Boats that there was a learning curve to handling and maneuvering the boats.
There were instances before the speed limits were put in place on the connecting river systems
Where during the process of overtaking another ship some serious shoreline flooding occured.
I do know first hand however that Capt Long was very adamant about using a minimum amount of wheel when In Ballast and departing a dock. The salt water stern with its sweeping flare easily could swing over a dock and endanger the rather large propeller. I was to wait for the mate to give an "all clear" indicating that the stern was a safe distance off the dock before giving anymore than 5 degrees rudder.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

What was the subject of the murals?
Jon Paul
Posts: 888
Joined: December 14, 2017, 8:37 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

The plaque and the murals were still there when I was. I regret not having taken photos of the passenger observation lounge and the staterooms. They were on separate decks and quite nice.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

Charles M White took trips on his namesake during the 1960s when my uncle sailed on her as a first assistant engineer under Wilson and in Republic colors. White was a tall man and had an oversized mattress in his quarters to accommodate his height. At that time, don't know if it was still there when Jon Paul sailed her, there was a large brass plaque in the forward quarters spelling out the ship's name. Also some impressive murals. I've appreciated to see all these photos -- especially the interior shots -- as just about all of my uncle's photos from when he sailed on the Patton and White are lost. On one trip, some of Mr White's luggage was being hauled aboard and a case with his fancy skeet shotguns was lost over the side. Apparently they were not recovered. Don't know what dock that was at as I was a wee lad when I heard that story and that was many years ago.
c ships

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by c ships »

The Coulby had a wide orange band on the stack, plus the front mast looks like it has the P.M. logo at the top. I left Chicago in 1980. I was not born, when they converted the triplets at American Shipyard Calumet. Seen a lot of winter work done there thru the 60's 70's. Can't recall the White in drydock in the late 70's. Cliff Victory was though.
William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by William Lafferty »

During the winter of 76-77 the Colby was converted to oil at Ashtabula. I'm not sure how late in the spring of 77 it was still there
The Coulby didn't enter service until 27 November 1977 when it was called out for grain, leaving Ashtabula that day for Duluth. The only other vessels that laid-up at Ashtabula that winter were the E. G. Grace, James R. Barker, Elton Hoyt 2nd, and Herbert C. Jackson.
Jon Paul
Posts: 888
Joined: December 14, 2017, 8:37 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

During the winter of 76-77 the Colby was converted to oil at Ashtabula. I'm not sure how late in the spring of 77 it was still there but on Trip #5 we took 15,554 of Blain Red Ore from Superior BN #3 to Ashtabula arriving there May 13, 1977. It's possible that I took the photo then.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

Boy,....I'll tell ya, I am not sure it's a Kinsman boat but I wasn't there. I hate to dispute first hand accounts ya know? But,... It sure looks like the Coulby to me. I am looking at the deck-house beneath the stack, the fact that it's similarly sized to the Grace, the chart-room/deck-house behind the wheelhouse as well as mast and radar locations. The exhaust atop the stack looks right and I think you can see the funky tube for the stern anchor chain ( the winch for the stern anchor was on the roof of the stern deck-house and a tube ran down and through the fantail tot he external anchor). Here are some stern shots of the Coulby to compare:

Image

Image
Jon Paul
Posts: 888
Joined: December 14, 2017, 8:37 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Guest wrote:Hey John Paul, I grew up in Davison and remember flint when it was a nice place. Was always surprised at how many sailors came from our hometown areas. Ran across 2 guys from Davison in the Huron fleet and one lived 2 miles from my folks, lol. I enjoyed your pics of the whites galley crew as I washed dishes on her layup ‘ 76 during Xmas break from EMU. Wonder what ever became of ole’ jingles..
Ah, Jingles the Porter. I'm sure when Cliffs basically dumped the fleet in 1980, he lost his job like almost everyone else.
I grew up in Flint and then when I finally took a shore job I moved to Flushing. There really were quite a few fellows from the area who sailed and that's kinda of funny because during that Era, once you graduated you were just about guaranteed a job in the GM Factories.
I'm sure they were a lot like me however, I couldn't stomach the idea of working inside an auto plant and at 18 I was looking to get out of the area and see some things.
I had spent so much time over at Port Huron on the weekends with my family and taking boat pics, I couldn't wait to get my ZCARD and ship out.
If the whole industry hadn't collapsed, I would have sailed till they through me ashore....too old and not worth rebuilding, lol
Jon Paul
Posts: 888
Joined: December 14, 2017, 8:37 pm

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Guest wrote:
c ships wrote:The other photo looks like E G Grace and the Harry Coulby,
Good eye C Ships! I think you nailed it! Harry Coulby on the right, E.G. Grace on the left.
That's where the boats went to be scrapped. The Colby sailed for many more years after the photo was taken in '78. If memory serves me right it was a Steinbrenner boat on the right.
If you enlarge the image it appears to have a middle green band on the stack.
Guest

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Guest »

c ships wrote:The other photo looks like E G Grace and the Harry Coulby,
Good eye C Ships! I think you nailed it! Harry Coulby on the right, E.G. Grace on the left.
William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by William Lafferty »

Jon Paul, Did Charles M. White, the somewhat controversial namesake of the boat, ever ride on the boat as a passenger, and did you meet him?
White was the protegee of Tom Girdler. The tactics that Republic used at Canton and South Chicago and elsewhere attributed to White Girdler had already used at Jones & Laughlin at Alaquippa.
Darryl

Re: Historical Perspective in Photos

Unread post by Darryl »

Jon Paul, Did Charles M. White, the somewhat controversial namesake of the boat, ever ride on the boat as a passenger, and did you meet him? For those that might not know, White was called before the US Senate for his unique way of handling strikes. TIA
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