American Mariner paint job

Discussion board focusing on Great Lakes Shipping Question & Answer. From beginner to expert all posts are welcome.
Old Man

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Old Man »

Forgive me if I'm wrong but, in the 50s and 60s and possibly other years, it seems that all boats received new hull paint every winter. The cabins were generally done during the sailing season. There must have been more money budgeted for upkeep. I remember putting more than a few drips/drops of hull black into the water at the Hocking Valley coal dock while the deckhands painted the hull next to us.
Guest

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Guest »

Laker Capt you said it perfectly! I remember when lakers were painted at least once a season and touched up here and there all season, could you imagine what the old skippers would think of the state of some of the ships.
Guest

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Guest »

Been around shipping my whole life plain and simple they can pretend there being enviromentally friendly all they want, but there being cheap and its there rite to do it paint doesn't haul more cargo and if those numbers for paint are correct you can see its expensive! Half a million dollars can be the difference from the CEO getting his multi million bonus.
Lakercapt
Posts: 554
Joined: July 19, 2010, 4:51 pm

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Lakercapt »

Painting the boat does extend its life as it reduces corrosion. Corrosion eats away at the steelwork and eventually it must be renewed. Painting in the holds I used to think important for the same reason. In days gone by lead based paints were used and underwater paint contained chemicals to stop marine growth on the hulls .When this was cleaned off in drydock by shot bllasting (sand ) the residue had to be taken to a dump site which could handle toxic chemicals. Painting the ships hulls now is expensive and as many have noted it does not help pay the wages if a boat is well painted or rusty looking. I used to take pride in a smart looking boat and used to say it was a good advertisment for the company.
Guest

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Guest »

Andrew wrote:I'm not going to get into an environmental debate on this thread, nor should anyone else, but frankly that doesn't bother me at all. I have to assume rust isn't great for the water either.
Rust is simply oxidized iron....a simple element found everywhere in nature; it's also a mineral that our bodies need to live. Paint meanwhile is oil based...

I'm willing to bet that the "customers" receiving ore, coal, etc couldn't care less about the look of the boat bringing their product....do you think Ford or GM (for example) execs even know the names of the ships who haul ore that ends up in their cars, or care about their appearance? I know FMC used to take pride in their own fleet when they had it....but that's long in the past. What about the rail cars....those are always in rough looking shape. No one seems to mind graffiti and grime on rail cars.
Bookworm

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Bookworm »

Guest wrote:Environmentally conscious companys keep painting to a minimum, and boat nerds need to start appreciating that. As a crew member I fully agree with the idea that a well maintained ship gives a sense of pride in the job, but I also know that when the hull was being painted by the crew, paint is getting in the water. For that reason many mate's and captain's don't put a lot of emphasis on hull paint. Their worried about paint slicks on the water.
The environmental costs are reflected in the cost of painting in the dry docks as well. Cleaning up the sand blast and enclosing the paint/work area and otherwise maintaining environmental standards has increased the cost significantly. Its my understanding that the cost of painting a seaway size laker in a Canadian dry dock is close to 500,000, in a U.S. yard its much cheaper. Difference in environmental standards?
What paint goes on comes off over the years. 100-200 gallons to paint a hull and a lot of it ends up in the water over the years.
Boat nerds please ease up your criticism. In a lot of cases this environmental damage is due to your pressure. The companies and customers don't care, and it has nothing to do with the longevity of the ship.
Since each poster sees this issue from one or two of a variety of perspectives, and each has the right to express an opinion, only by doing so can we get a more complete picture of the components involved and, thus, the whole. Thanks for your input.
Andrew

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Andrew »

I'm not going to get into an environmental debate on this thread, nor should anyone else, but frankly that doesn't bother me at all. I have to assume rust isn't great for the water either.
Guest

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Guest »

Environmentally conscious companys keep painting to a minimum, and boat nerds need to start appreciating that. As a crew member I fully agree with the idea that a well maintained ship gives a sense of pride in the job, but I also know that when the hull was being painted by the crew, paint is getting in the water. For that reason many mate's and captain's don't put a lot of emphasis on hull paint. Their worried about paint slicks on the water.
The environmental costs are reflected in the cost of painting in the dry docks as well. Cleaning up the sand blast and enclosing the paint/work area and otherwise maintaining environmental standards has increased the cost significantly. Its my understanding that the cost of painting a seaway size laker in a Canadian dry dock is close to 500,000, in a U.S. yard its much cheaper. Difference in environmental standards?
What paint goes on comes off over the years. 100-200 gallons to paint a hull and a lot of it ends up in the water over the years.
Boat nerds please ease up your criticism. In a lot of cases this environmental damage is due to your pressure. The companies and customers don't care, and it has nothing to do with the longevity of the ship.
Jon Paul
Posts: 888
Joined: December 14, 2017, 8:37 pm

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Guest wrote:Would a Great Lakes cargo vessel's lifespan be significantly shorter if it were never painted? Most of the boats seem to rust from the inside out, whether due to cargo-assisted corrosion or salt water in the ballast tanks. I suppose that the stack and name need to be painted for identification purposes, but the rest of the boat could come out of the shipyard as bare steel and still likely last for 30 or 40 years.
Let me put it this way for some prospective;
Would you buy an unpainted pickup truck, leave it outside in all kinds of weather, drive it through terrain where the metal would get scratched and dinged up daily and expect it not to rust and suffer body and frame failure in a shorter period of time than one that had been painted, washed and maintained?...and thats even taking into account that vehicles are made with more durable and rust resistant steel and alloys than ships.
Just look back at the Canadian Miner for an example of severe hull failure.
RCRVRP

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by RCRVRP »

As a business owner with trucks it is my belief that keeping my trucks looking good results in my employees taking better care of them. They are proud of what they drive and it shows in how they take care of the trucks and it shows in the work they perform for our customers.
Brian Ferguson

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Brian Ferguson »

Chris M wrote:Burns Harbors paint, hull wise isn't bad, just alot ore staining
The Burns Harbor has had that staining on the back of the cabins under the stacks for as long as I've know it. I personally scrubbed those sports when I worked on her and we even did some painting on her back there in 2002 and it's just part of her "patina" because it was back in a matter of weeks. I've never seen another Bay Ship footer with that staining there but that and her "extra" deck (more like filled in void between the stacks makes her easy to pick out from the other ASC footers.
Jon Paul
Posts: 888
Joined: December 14, 2017, 8:37 pm

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Jon Paul »

Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:Paint doesn't make money.
Perhaps not. But it does protect the steel and prove you have a reasonable level of pride in the equipment. I work on one of these vessels, it is my home for most of the year. Frankly it is embarrassing when the hull has more rust than paint. Why should employees care about maintenance when it is made apparent by actions that the company doesn't? It isn't wasted money in the least.
I agree with you and it makes me suspect that other maintenance is being skipped.
I also understand what the other person posted about the amount of lockage being done by the Seaway boats and the resultant hull scrapping.That being said though, it would be all the more reason to protect the hull with paint. Hull maintenance is a Cost of doing business and should be allocated into their budgets obviously not on a yearly basis but as needed to insure the integrity of the steel and not just for the obvious visual effect of a nicely painted boat.
Guest

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Guest »

Would a Great Lakes cargo vessel's lifespan be significantly shorter if it were never painted? Most of the boats seem to rust from the inside out, whether due to cargo-assisted corrosion or salt water in the ballast tanks. I suppose that the stack and name need to be painted for identification purposes, but the rest of the boat could come out of the shipyard as bare steel and still likely last for 30 or 40 years.
Shipwatcher1
Posts: 489
Joined: April 19, 2011, 4:01 pm

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Shipwatcher1 »

To be clear, I don't think anyone is suggesting that painting take place anytime the boat gets a scrape. What is being discuss is how some fleets, primarily Algoma and ASC, who don't paint their boats even during dry dockings. So while techniocally true paint doesn't make money, every 5 years in the dry dock doesn't seem too unreasonable to sandblast and paint.
Guest

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Guest »

I don't think it's as easy for Algoma to keep their paint jobs in good condition as it is for the US companies. Many Algoma ships transit the Welland and Seaway on a regular basis which takes a toll on paint. A round trip from Lake Superior, down the Seaway and back means transiting 32 locks in about a 15 day period. In the same time, a US ship running round trips of ore to a Lake Michigan port would transit the Soo locks maybe 6 times at the most.
Guest

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Guest »

Guest wrote:Paint doesn't make money.
Perhaps not. But it does protect the steel and prove you have a reasonable level of pride in the equipment. I work on one of these vessels, it is my home for most of the year. Frankly it is embarrassing when the hull has more rust than paint. Why should employees care about maintenance when it is made apparent by actions that the company doesn't? It isn't wasted money in the least.
Denny

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Denny »

Yup, I agree with you Chris as hull wise the Burns Harbor is not too bad other than the ore stains as you had mentioned. That is also the case with the American Spirit as well. Hull wise she is fine but just has some ore stains on her like any other vessel that is hauling lots of ore cargoes frequently. Don't mean to sound so negative on the subject but, as far as the Mac and Indy goes all I can say there is looks speak for themselves on those two footers at least anyway. Also let's not forget as well before I get shot down even more here on my comments, it wasn't too long ago that we had some that was also talking about Algoma and how some of their ships are in need of paint jobs. Yeah I realize that paint does not make money but, if you're a company wouldn't you want your ships looking the best and be proud and have pride in ships looking decent like in the old days when USS/GLF and Oglebay Norton would paint their ships? Right now I'd say that Interlake probably has some of the best looking ships paint wise at least out there sailing the lakes.
Chris M
Posts: 704
Joined: July 28, 2009, 10:30 pm

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Chris M »

Burns Harbors paint, hull wise isn't bad, just alot ore staining
Guest

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Guest »

Paint doesn't make money.
Denny

Re: American Mariner paint job

Unread post by Denny »

Agree with you 100% Bookworm as the American Spirit and to our dear friend Lady Pirate Violet, the former George A. Stinson is indeed in need of some paint work. The Burns Harbor is another that is in dire need of a paint job. I guess ASC is known as the El Cheapo shipping company if you will since they rarely paint some of their ships. To think they have two former Oglebay Norton footers the Century and Integrity and even those two now after nearly 12 years already with ASC are starting to look a little rough.
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