Boatnerd Discussion Forum

It was a misprint in the article. The barge conversion is supposed to be finished during May 2014.

One option to replace the Challenger for a season would be to lease the Crapo and tow her as a barge. This was done some years ago with the GLT Ohio doing the towing. Having never kept track of the cement boats that much with the exception of the Challenger due to her age and history, there must be something out there to lease as a replacement for her with for a season, but the only other one that comes to mind would be the CTC No. 1 as she is not being used and is not in competition with anyone. A pushing frame could be added to the stern and used as a temporary barge. Just some thoughts.

Inspections and regulations have really been toughened on ATB's while ship crew sizes have dropped a lot on ships in recent years. Combine that with current fuel prices and future projections that favor the more efficient hull form of a ship and it's anything but a slam dunk in favor of barging.

Companies like Interlake aren't repowering ships instead of barging them and Canadian fleets aren't building new ships out of romanticism in recent years. It's because of these shifts that at the very least make it a close decision these days for any operator.

And whatever happens, I don't think there's any question that the Challenger won't sail next season in one form or another. What work they decide to do can be done during the course of a normal winter layup period which can easily run over half a year for her.

And at well over 100 years of age, I suspect the actual components like hull plates that date from 1906 are relatively few. Combine that with spending all of her time in fresh water, being well cared for and regularly updated by Interlake and subsequent owners, a cargo that isn't very harmful to her that she has hauled now for almost a half century, and her often sporadic service many years when demand is low and her long winter layups and it's not a surprise I think.

She's lived a gentle life since the 60's and was in good shape when she started this chapter of her life.

It is nice to see all the hope that everyone has for the Challenger, but its reality folks... the bottom line is the $ amount. If it really was an equal amount to barge vs dieselize her... don't you think they've taken into account crew size for the upcoming years too? That alone would tip the scales in favor of notching it.

It's very sad and I don't want to see it happen, but it was officially announced by Bayship, and it will be happening.

What capacity is available for carrying the cement that the St. Mary's Challenger has carried in this and past years? In other words, if Challenger is out of service while being cut-down (or repowered?), how does the cement get moved?

Shipwatcher1 wrote:I am amazed that the Challenger hull is still in such good shape to warrant this work. If done properly, that hull could sail for another 10-25 years.

My thoughts exactly. I obviously do not have the survey results and nor do I know the actual cost of the conversion, however, I would think that there would be better avenues for investment than the St. Marys Challenger. You really have to wonder how much longer a 107 year old riveted hall can last. Obviously, when Lafarge built the Innovation and Integrity they felt that it made more economic sense to build new rather than convert. Additionally, during the time period the conversation is scheduled to take place, what american flagged cement carrier will fill the Challenger's capacity for the 2014 season?

I could see 2015 if they were planning on repowering as there is usually a year lead time on buying an engine. The barging could be done over a winter depending on what other work Bayship has planned. It may be a case that by this time of the year, Bay has already planned all their winter work and there was not enough available time to do Challenger. What may be happening is they will do the 5 year this year and make a decision and plan the conversion for next winter.

Her engine is getting more expensive to maintain so that's why they're going to do something one way or another.

But maybe there's some hope. We've been told two different contradictory things. But the announcement from Bayship that we're taking as confirmation of her being barged (Which doesn't align with what we were told just a few days prior that a decision will be made after she's inspected this winter) says that they will complete the conversion by May 2015.

If they had came to a decision already, wouldn't May 2014 make more sense? There's more than enough time here for such a conversion before next year's shipping season if they've already decided to take that course.

But if she's going to sail as a steamer next year which to me is what the May 2015 date suggests, there's enough lead time here for a repowering project to take place and be finished by May 2015 if they decide to.

So here's to hoping that they haven't made a final decision on what path her rebuilding will take.

I find it hard to believe that a shipping company would make a decision like that without all the facts. Normally shipping companies don't spend money they don't have to so if the Challenger checks out with her Skinner why barge her? Even if they can get another 5 years out of her it would be worth waiting. Then again maybe it would be cheaper now then to do it 5 years from now. I guess we will see when they get her on the blocks and have a look at her. In looking at the pictures you can see where the rivets are worn almost flat, so maybe that is an early indication that they don't think the hull plating will take a diesel conversion and it would be better to just chop off that part.

Guest wrote:Zeus is in Sturgeon Bay to pick up a new barge and take it off the lakes.

Any information on the new barge? Name, owner, destination? I wasn't aware of any current barge construction by Bay Shipbuilding, Marinette Marine or Basic Marine, but not all their projects get announced publicly.

As reported earlier this week on the news page, the decision has been made to go ahead with the barge conversion. The employees of Bay Ship have been told and the news was reported in the local press. It's a done deal, alas.

The contributors to this thread seem to be awfully pessimistic. Maybe it''s the recent Barging of the Viking, Reserve, and Buckeye. Remember, Port City said the decision whether to
Re-power the St.Marys Challenger or cut her down into a Barge depends on the condition of the Stern - which has not yet been determined - so it's too early to assume she will be Barged.If the Stern is in good shape, they will simply re-power her as a Motor Vessel.

My $ says both the Prentiss Brown and the Bradshaw McKee will be outfitted to push either the Conquest or a Challenger. They fit in the same size notch and are a similar HP. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bradshaw McKee outfitted with a raised pilot house. Has anyone heard when she will make her final trip as a steamer? Who can I call to find out?

Zeus is in Sturgeon Bay to pick up a new barge and take it off the lakes.

I am amazed that the Challenger hull is still in such good shape to warrant this work. If done properly, that hull could sail for another 10-25 years.

The Bradshaw McKee will push the Challenger.

That would be 4000 total.

Chief, would that be 4000 SHP per screw or overall? Thanks, I'm always curious about engineering.

Didn't think about the ATB conversion part of it. It's not like you can just go out and lease a tug, hook up and go sailing. So it's either a matter of finding a tug that they can install the ATB on, finding a compatible ATB tug, or building a tug. Not as simple as it sounds. Buying a tug may not be a big deal as there are a lot of them for sale down on the Gulf Coast, just need to find one that has enough SHP to safely do the job. I would suspect something around 4000 SHP and twin screw.

Conquest is out and is being pushed by the Prentiss Brown. I doubt Zeus would probably not be an option, since she is owned by Dann Marine Towing out of Maryland, and they would have to agree on a conversion to ATB (Dann has never owned an ATB). She's also underpowered for such a job.