Historical Perspective in Photos

[Guest]

Hey John Paul, I grew up in Davison and remember flint when it was a nice place. Was always surprised at how many sailors came from our hometown areas. Ran across 2 guys from Davison in the Huron fleet and one lived 2 miles from my folks, lol. I enjoyed your pics of the whites galley crew as I washed dishes on her layup ‘ 76 during Xmas break from EMU. Wonder what ever became of ole’ jingles..

I grew up in Mt. Morris, (went to church in Davison) although much later 80's. Saying I was from "near Flint" just got a lot of "oh boy's" and sarcastic "I'm locking my door". Sad how much it's changed.

[Guest]

Hello Jon Paul, Did the White and its sisters have any unique handling characteristics as being saltwater conversions in comparison to a purpose built lake freighter? I seem to recall reading that this class was involved in several minor incidents during their early careers.

[Guest]

Hey John Paul, I grew up in Davison and remember flint when it was a nice place. Was always surprised at how many sailors came from our hometown areas. Ran across 2 guys from Davison in the Huron fleet and one lived 2 miles from my folks, lol. I enjoyed your pics of the whites galley crew as I washed dishes on her layup ‘ 76 during Xmas break from EMU. Wonder what ever became of ole’ jingles..

[c ships]

Nice pic's! never seen the river from that end. Back in the day we had access from Bird n Sons in that direction. The other photo looks like E G Grace and the Harry Coulby, maybe? Cargill was somewhere there also in river pictures. 1977 I was taking photos from the bridges 106th to 92st. Brings back the memories.

[Jon Paul]

How long did the strike last and what did you do during that time ? Great photos ! TIA

We went back into service on Nov 25th.
Several shipmates and I took a long motorcycle/camping/fishing trip through the Upper Penn of Michigan. The other 2 guys were from the Chicago area and I was from Flint so we met up in Escanaba (@ the Corner Bar near the ore dock) and went to Copper Harbor and The Porcupine Mountains. Then I spent the rest of the time with my fiance and my family.

[Jon Paul]

That's a lot of trips by mid-August. I'm guessing that's an indication of the White's speed. What was her max speed loaded and in ballast ?

I'm not sure what the max speeds for the White were over its service life but we averaged 15-16mph(17 under special circumstances ) depending on weather conditions loaded and in A+ Ballast if the rush was necessary 20 mph lite.
We had started the '77 Season with quite a few Duluth - Ashtabula runs with Red Ore but by August We had also made a lot of shorter hauls too. An Escanaba - S Chicago round trip was basically 3 days and our other main run was Marquette - Trenton which was 4 days round trip.

[Guest]

How long did the strike last and what did you do during that time ? Great photos ! TIA

[Guest]

That's a lot of trips by mid-August. I'm guessing that's an indication of the White's speed. What was her max speed loaded and in ballast ?

[Jon Paul]

Photo's of the Charles M White were taken Aug 13, 1977 during Miners Strike. We laidup at Rogers Terminal on Calumet River after already making 30 trips in the 1977 Shipping Season.

[Jon Paul]

Jon Paul, viewing the impressive photo of the Patton plowing through the ice, was the bow on the triplets just that brawny or had they been reinforced? Thanks

To my knowledge Alex, nothing was done to strengthen the bow other than being built really well with good steel when they were converted from C-4's.
I'm not a Marine Archetect or Engineer but in Photos that I have of the bow that I took during layup, the framing seems to be much closer together than on most boats. Even after several winters of Winter Navigation deep into February, there wasn't the noticeable waffling like you could see on many of the newer boats and especially the footers.

[Alex]

Jon Paul, viewing the impressive photo of the Patton plowing through the ice, was the bow on the triplets just that brawny or had they been reinforced? Thanks

[Jon Paul]

It would have been something else if they could have found a way to save one of the Triplets or the Cliffs Victory as a museum ship. Their contribution to the Great Lake shipping economics, history and lore are something the likes we'll never see again. Thank goodness you and others have compiled a photographic record and documentation of this..[/quote


Totally agree 1000%

Rob W

I understand and your right it would have been special to save one of them but the reality is that museum ships rarely pay even for their upkeep.
A case in point is the old USCGC Mackinaw here in Mackinaw City. If it hadn't been for the Shepler family stepping in and generously helping out in several ways, it would never have happened.

[Rob W]

[quote="Darryl"]It would have been something else if they could have found a way to save one of the Triplets or the Cliffs Victory as a museum ship. Their contribution to the Great Lake shipping economics, history and lore are something the likes we'll never see again. Thank goodness you and others have compiled a photographic record and documentation of this..[/quote


Totally agree 1000%

Rob W

[Jon Paul]

The photos of the Pontiac are priceless. One of my favorites only got to see it a few times so thanks for posting.

I always liked the Pontiac too. Fellas that I knew that sailed on it said she was a good boat and pretty easy to work.
I was a bit surprised that they were stopped by the ice considering they had 5,000 hp.
They usually only ran Silver Bay - Republic/Cleveland but with all the ice issues in the St Mary's River, Cliffs tried to slide in some Esky loads.

[mopar tim]

The photos of the Pontiac are priceless. One of my favorites only got to see it a few times so thanks for posting.

[Guest]

It would have been something else if they could have found a way to save one of the Triplets or the Cliffs Victory as a museum ship. Their contribution to the Great Lake shipping economics, history and lore are something the likes we'll never see again. Thank goodness you and others have compiled a photographic record and documentation of this..

Amen to that....

[Darryl]

It would have been something else if they could have found a way to save one of the Triplets or the Cliffs Victory as a museum ship. Their contribution to the Great Lake shipping economics, history and lore are something the likes we'll never see again. Thank goodness you and others have compiled a photographic record and documentation of this...

[Jon Paul]

Here is the bow shot of Patton smashing through solid blue ice

[Guest]

Great story and pictures ! It looks like the triplets were well suited to winter running and the occasional icebreaker duties.

[Jon Paul]

Unfortunately the close up view of the Patton bow didn't upload to the post.
I will post it separately tomorrow.