Historical Perspective in Photos

[Guest]

To a degree we do have year-round shipping on the Great Lakes. Tankers operate from Sarnia to various ports as do ships carrying salt out of Goderich on a near year-round basis - depending on demand.

What caused the popularity of year-round in the shipping community to wane, was the dramatic drop in steel production starting in the early '80s.

The Soo Locks were kept open year-round from April 2, 1974 to January 21, 1977 and from March 17, 1977 to January 15, 1980. (The Poe Lock was opened for urgent use in February 1977, so needed fuel supplies could be delivered by tankers to Thunder Bay.)

As the Poe Lock has aged, it has required more maintenance - in her early years, she had maintenance every 5 years, and the Poe could be kept open year-round. With no replacement for the old Sabin and Davis Locks, it is necessary for the Soo Locks to close for part of the winter for maintenance.

[Guest]

Wonder if there would have been more support for continuing the program if they hadn't inadvertantly picked a few of the coldest winters in the last 50 or so years to try out year-round navigation.

[Guest]

The Winter Navigation Demonstration program was funded by Congress passed the legislation for the Winter navigation Demonstration Program in the early 1970s, and extended it twice in order to obtain additional data. (types of ice structures and environmental).

Canada was interested in the winter navigation program for the Great Lakes, but not to the extent of the United States.

During the winter of 1977-78 the Canadian tankers, Doan Transport, Hudson Transport, and Imperial St. Clair were used to carry chemicals and fuel oil from Sarnia to Thunder Bay.

Canada Steamship Lines had their Frontenac, Jean Parisean and Louis R. Desmarais in operation (the later two primarily loading iron ore in Marquette for Algoma Steel at the Canadian Soo.)

Algoma central had a few ships in operation to haul salt out of Goderich.

[Guest]

I dont remember but were there any Canadian ships in the winter nav program?

[ds]

John Paul,

Your photo of the Ft. Gratiot Lighthouse and CG Station taken January 10, 1978 stimulated an old memory. I was sailing on the MV Wolverine at that time. We had been doing trips up to Picton, Ontario (on Lake Ontario) to load ore for J&L Steel in Cleveland due to the ongoing iron ore miners’ strike in MN and MI. Soon after the 4-month-long strike was settled, we resumed our usual trips to Escanaba, Marquette, and Taconite Harbor. The 1977-78 winter was very cold and made for tough going on the Lakes and it coincided with the Winter Navigation Demonstration Program.

Somewhere around the time your Ft. Gratiot photo was taken, we ended up as the twelth vessel in a 13-ship convoy upbound transiting the extremely ice-clogged St. Marys River on our way to Tac. Harbor. The convoy was led by one of the C4s. Whatever ship was in the lead position eventually became stuck (the ice was incredibly thick with huge quantities of brash ice stacked up underwater) and we ended up ice bound for the next six + days. I think a second C4 may have also possibly been positioned in the convoy somewhere but can’t remember for sure. I do remember the John J. Boland was bringing up the rear of the convoy. Everyday we would hear reports of the gargantuan struggle upstream of us involving the Mackinaw and multiple tugs attempting to make headway, including trying to tow the C4. No such drama with the Wolverine, as the engines would be fired up every few hours in order to move slightly forward and aft to prevent the ship from getting completely frozen in but we did run very low on food and eventually had to be re-supplyed by the Mackinaw.

As a member of the forward-end crew, we spent each of those days with the conveyor crew swinging sledgehammers breaking the enormous quantity of ice that had collected on the deck and submerged the hatch crane railings. We pushed and/or lifted all the ice over the ship’s sides. Six days of this kind of labor yielded a very impressive stockpile of broken ice lining both sides of the vessel. When we started each work day, the temperature was always in the -24 to -32 degree range. Several layers of clothing and hard physical labor ensured I always remained warm. One day after work we were in the galley eating supper. The television was on and broadcasting the national news via one of the three major networks. A story about the Arctic weather gripping the Great Lakes region was featured and an aerial photo of the 13-ship convoy was included in the coverage. Very surprising!

As I remember it, a great deal of time was taken up moving the first three or four ships upstream and through the locks before things began to progress a little quicker. I was just wondering if the White was involved in this convoy and, if so, what your memories were of this experience. It was one of many I have retained from sailing during the Winter Navigation Demonstration Program that year.

ds

[Jon Paul]

Mariners in the 1970s and 80s received weather information from the NWS offices through products such as LAke Weather Broadcast (LAWEB) and the MAFOR code via radio stations such as WMI-Lorain's Great Lakes VHF System (VHF channels 26,84,85,86, 87) and 409 SSB; WLC-Rogers City provided the same service on VHF channel 26 and SSB 405).

In addition, some ships had facsimile receivers in order to obtain Pressure Mean-Sea Level charts (provided by NWS Cleveland) and sent by the previously mentioned stations.

Ships that participated in the Winter Navigation Demonstration program received ice charts, again via facsimile receivers.

Storm warnings, advisories, etc were sent through WMI-Lorain and WLC-Rogers City on an as needed basis.

We used all of the services listed above and also participated as a weather reporting ship.
Notice to Mariners on VHF provided about as up to the minute as we were going to get but like all the weather info during that time period, it was genrealized and covered a larger area than was helpful at times.
Flying the signal flags was more of a tradition than informational for commercial traffic to go by.....but I can tell you that seeing that red flag with the black square in the middle flying that day was a bit surreal because it was only blowing about 15-20 kn at the time.

[Guest]

Mariners in the 1970s and 80s received weather information from the NWS offices through products such as LAke Weather Broadcast (LAWEB) and the MAFOR code via radio stations such as WMI-Lorain's Great Lakes VHF System (VHF channels 26,84,85,86, 87) and 409 SSB; WLC-Rogers City provided the same service on VHF channel 26 and SSB 405).

In addition, some ships had facsimile receivers in order to obtain Pressure Mean-Sea Level charts (provided by NWS Cleveland) and sent by the previously mentioned stations.

Ships that participated in the Winter Navigation Demonstration program received ice charts, again via facsimile receivers.

Storm warnings, advisories, etc were sent through WMI-Lorain and WLC-Rogers City on an as needed basis.

[Jon Paul]

I need to make a correction to that post. We were off Oscoda @ approximately 1700hrs. The White was fast but not that fast, especially bucking heavy seas head on.
That storm was alost identical to the storm that sank the Morrell as it started as a NÉE Gale became a NE Storm and then steadily veered more northerly till almost NW by the time we were off TBI. At that point our orders had been changed to load at Escanaba which meant we had more of a beam sea entering the Straits.
What a difference having 10k hp at your disposal to keep from falling off into the troughs and and a very solid well made hull makes in those situation.

[garbear]

Love the shots with the huletts. I notice in the photo of the Montcliffe Hall unloading in Conneaut there is one of the USS/GLF "AAA" boats. Maybe it was the Clarke.

[Bookworm]

1978 vs 2017: I was living in AR (tornadoes were a major concern) totally oblivious to the Great Lakes, so am wondering what kind of weather forecasting mariners had to go by. Did they rely mainly on storm flags and condition reports from other mariners? I'm spoiled with the wind barbs on Marine Traffic and frequent up-dates to NOAA. It's frigid and gusty along the shores of Lake Huron today but nothing close to what you experienced off Oscoda on your way to Marquette. I'm really enjoying your posts.

[Jon Paul]

It was fairly calm when I took this photo upbound at Fort Gratiot Lighthouse and CG Station showing Storm Warnings flying @ 1000hr on January 10, 1978. We were bound for Marquette with N Storm Warnings and encountered steady 60+ mph winds with the hightest gusts over 70 @1300hr when we were off Oscoda, MI. Waves were averaging 18-22ft with the occasional 25 footer and had to check down to 60prm because we were pitching so heavily.

[Jon Paul]

How would they know if you missed the boat if your watch wasn't for a bit did you sign on and off?

We didn't need to sign out but the mate on my watch knew I hadn't got back because I always let him know first thing back on board.
Besides, we all pretty much looked out for each other.
I'm sure other guys who sailed will agree...there were other guys on board who I didn't particularly like but if we were up town and they got in a bind, we always had the back of a shipmate.

[Guest]

How would they know if you missed the boat if your watch wasn't for a bit did you sign on and off?

[Jon Paul]

I could still kick myself for not grabbing the one onboard the White. We had just weathered a heavy storm with lots of pitching that caused the framed copy we had in the guest observation lounge to pull loose and crashed to the deck. While cleaning up the mess I seriously debated whether to stash it away and sneak it off during layup but my good upbringing got the better of me, lol.
I know of no other copies but John Belliveau who does the amazing Digital ship drawings listed on boatnerd would be a good start.
Yes, the coal from Conneaut went to Port Washington. We usually went there 4-5 times a year. I loved it there!! It's a beautiful and friendly little town and took 36 - 40+ hours to unload.
As for being in trouble for missing the boat, I had asked the Old Man's permission each time and was back an hour before the designated time.
Others occasionally missed the boat but that usually involved drinking and that was a one and done.

[garbear]

Did the coal you loaded in Conneaut go to Port Washington? Thanks.

[Guest]

Did the mate give you a hard time about missing the boat?

I'd be surprised if it occurs much, if at all, these days. But no matter when, that person who ranks above the mate better like you A LOT. And you best not make a habit out of it.........

BTDT

[Guest]

Jon Paul, do you by chance know of anyone who saved or kept any kind of blueprint for the triplets? Several people including myself have been trying to locate some for many years to no real success. Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks for sharing!

[Guest]

Did the mate give you a hard time about missing the boat?

[Jon Paul]

Thanks for the photos of the Clarke and Watson. Really like that Watson photo. Also, thanks for posting a photo of unloading at McLouth Steel. Don't see a lot of photos of boats unloading there.

We went there a lot. They had Wellman unloading rigs that were broke down probably 30-40% of the time. Our unloading times could be 15 hours (when both were working full time) and 25 -35 hours when not.
My family lived near Flint which was an hours drive away. My father, who had to have been an original boatnerd, loved to come down and visit. He would go to the galley, get a cup of "boat coffee" and roam the boat. Of course everyone knew he was my pop so they treated him 1st class.
Sometimes if it was gonna be a long delay, he would take me home and I could see mom and then a little special time with my fiance.
Of course this was pre cell phone Era and a couple times they finished unloading quicker than anticipated. I got to the dock and the White was already mid-stream and going though the Upper Grosse Isle Bridge.
We would drive like madmen to get to Wescott's and they would radio the boat and tell them I would get back on when they delivered the mail.
I will tell you from experience...that is a long scary climb up a regular ladder slung over the side, in the dark and both boats moving.

[garbear]

Thanks for the photos of the Clarke and Watson. Really like that Watson photo. Also, thanks for posting a photo of unloading at McLouth Steel. Don't see a lot of photos of boats unloading there.