ASC Sold

[hospitaller]

I was just thinking the other day about the possibility that Cleveland Cliffs might get one or two of the ASC boats down the road. It would be fantastic to see the olive-drab cabins and black stack with the red "C" return. Thots?

I don't see Cliffs getting back in to the water transportation side of pellet production. They got out of it originally for a reason and I don't think that has changed considering how that market has shrunk over the years.

[Chris M]

No

[ashland69]

I was just thinking the other day about the possibility that Cleveland Cliffs might get one or two of the ASC boats down the road. It would be fantastic to see the olive-drab cabins and black stack with the red "C" return. Thots?

[Shipwatcher1]

It amazes me at all of the conjecture of certain ASC ships seemingly destined to go immediately into the Canadian fleet. Last season, ASC ran all of their existing ships (that may have not been true if the St. Clair had not burned) thereby signifying that there was enough current business to do so. From all appearances this sale was not just for the ships but also the fleet's various hauling contracts and customer base so it is not like ASC just went out of business and Rand bought their ships. Rather, they invested in an operating business entity to expand their overall footprint. Although it is likely that there will be some adjustments made by Rand in its mix of Canadian and US flagged vessels on the lakes at some point in the future, this will not occur until warranted by customer demands such as when coal bottoms out and to what extent the iron ore briquette trade develops. One thing I'm seeing mentioned is what may happen to the ships in the Grand River Navigation US subsidiary fleet. It will be interesting to see if this entity continues to be operated independently or absorbed into the ASC fleet down the road. I surmise that with the acquisition of ASC, Rand logistics now owns the largest number of ships on the lakes in terms of both numbers and single trip carrying capacity. Although the government will likely approve this deal, does anyone have any insight into how other fleets such as Interlake and Great Lakes Fleet are viewing this development? Above all, I hope that this transaction has a positive impact upon all of Rand's employees.

Please bear in mind that every GRN vessel except for the MAUMEE has hauled salt. They are not coated, and are headed for the end of their life cycle.
Every LLT self-unloader has hauled salt including the their newest, the MANITOULIN. The straight-deckers have not, but they will major investments to meet environmental requirements.
AIP is a short term investment company, with Rand currently managing GRN and LLT.
IMO, the AIP ASC purchase has consolidation, purging, and resale all over it. I as you, hope the best for the employees of all companies involved.

Michipicoten has hauled 1, maybe 2 salt loads that I can recall. I doubt she is anywhere near the end of her cycle. Unless of course she eventually replaces the Mississagi. As for the rest, yeah, they haul a lot of salt.

[Darryl]

IMO, the AIP ASC purchase has consolidation, purging, and resale all over it. I as you, hope the best for the employees of all companies involved.

Sounds about right to me. These "investment companies" don't have a high interest in the industries or employees. They want to quickly show a return on the money they put up. Many times they sell off equipment, try to reduce labor and labor costs, and usually say business as usual till they come up with their strategy.

[Laker Cap]

It amazes me at all of the conjecture of certain ASC ships seemingly destined to go immediately into the Canadian fleet. Last season, ASC ran all of their existing ships (that may have not been true if the St. Clair had not burned) thereby signifying that there was enough current business to do so. From all appearances this sale was not just for the ships but also the fleet's various hauling contracts and customer base so it is not like ASC just went out of business and Rand bought their ships. Rather, they invested in an operating business entity to expand their overall footprint. Although it is likely that there will be some adjustments made by Rand in its mix of Canadian and US flagged vessels on the lakes at some point in the future, this will not occur until warranted by customer demands such as when coal bottoms out and to what extent the iron ore briquette trade develops. One thing I'm seeing mentioned is what may happen to the ships in the Grand River Navigation US subsidiary fleet. It will be interesting to see if this entity continues to be operated independently or absorbed into the ASC fleet down the road. I surmise that with the acquisition of ASC, Rand logistics now owns the largest number of ships on the lakes in terms of both numbers and single trip carrying capacity. Although the government will likely approve this deal, does anyone have any insight into how other fleets such as Interlake and Great Lakes Fleet are viewing this development? Above all, I hope that this transaction has a positive impact upon all of Rand's employees.

Please bear in mind that every GRN vessel except for the MAUMEE has hauled salt. They are not coated, and are headed for the end of their life cycle.
Every LLT self-unloader has hauled salt including the their newest, the MANITOULIN. The straight-deckers have not, but they will major investments to meet environmental requirements.
AIP is a short term investment company, with Rand currently managing GRN and LLT.
IMO, the AIP ASC purchase has consolidation, purging, and resale all over it. I as you, hope the best for the employees of all companies involved.

[Guest]

No, this was a separate deal between algoma and lower lakes. You can find the news release on Rand's website.

[hospitaller]

I just noticed that the American Valor, which was sold to Algoma is now showing up on the LLT (Canadian-side) roster. Was this part of the deal struck between GATX and Rand?

[Guest]

It amazes me at all of the conjecture of certain ASC ships seemingly destined to go immediately into the Canadian fleet. Last season, ASC ran all of their existing ships (that may have not been true if the St. Clair had not burned) thereby signifying that there was enough current business to do so. From all appearances this sale was not just for the ships but also the fleet's various hauling contracts and customer base so it is not like ASC just went out of business and Rand bought their ships. Rather, they invested in an operating business entity to expand their overall footprint. Although it is likely that there will be some adjustments made by Rand in its mix of Canadian and US flagged vessels on the lakes at some point in the future, this will not occur until warranted by customer demands such as when coal bottoms out and to what extent the iron ore briquette trade develops. One thing I'm seeing mentioned is what may happen to the ships in the Grand River Navigation US subsidiary fleet. It will be interesting to see if this entity continues to be operated independently or absorbed into the ASC fleet down the road. I surmise that with the acquisition of ASC, Rand logistics now owns the largest number of ships on the lakes in terms of both numbers and single trip carrying capacity. Although the government will likely approve this deal, does anyone have any insight into how other fleets such as Interlake and Great Lakes Fleet are viewing this development? Above all, I hope that this transaction has a positive impact upon all of Rand's employees.

[Shipwatcher1]

At this point ASC and Rand have both said its business as usual with no changes.

[diesel]

Why not keep the newer boat on the grain run and use the older H.Lee White for the Seaway run.

[Denny]

I can see maybe one of the river-classes going over to Canadian but I don’t see both as wouldn’t they need one to run the shuttles unless of course they use the Calumet or Manitowoc? Just my thoughts on this.

[ckoster]

Something to keep in mind that was stated earlier by someone else is that they also bought ASC's order book. I think it makes sense that the American Mariner may switch sides, but the H. Lee White stays as they are likely going to need an American vessel that can carry grain from General Mills Superior to Buffalo.

[diesel]

I think the White would be good for the seaway, they are now set up for grain and they have done the seaway. I don't think they would let a boat go that pays for it self like the Mariner.

[Guest]

I'm sure some people will get mad at me but I hope LLT gets rid of the grey and goes black but keeps the red stripe! The grey only looks good for 5 minutes out of the shipyard then rusty. My guess American Mariner will be the first to go Canadian it will give them a Seaway max self unloader very versatile can carry grain from TBay to Toledo or Buffalo or down Seaway and back with pellets just a guess!

[Guest]

Besides the Boland in drydock at Fraser in Superior, I’d also keep an eye out at Sturgeon Bay as well. The American Integrity is there along with the American Mariner and H. Lee White. So far I think the Integrity has gone into the large graving dock with no changes so far. We will have to see IF the Mariner or White enters the drydock and if anything new is done to them? Also keep an eye out in Toledo as well for any possible changes there that may come about. Would they possibly repaint the stacks and logos? I could see that happening at some point this year to where the stacks are completely painted all black covering up the ASC stack logos to where one wouldn’t see that anymore. Just my thoughts.

Nothing is going to change. American steamship will continue to exist as a part of AIP/Rand

[Guest]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the fleet colors to remain unchanged for the time being. As far as what this means for the Valo as some have questioned, I would expect work to continue on this ship's conversion to diesel and return to service. The Rand acquisition of ASC did not happen over a few days but most likely is the culmination of months of negotiation so plans for the Valo were developed with this in mind. In addition, it is Canadian flagged and it is probable that all of the current ASC vessels will remain under the US flag for the immediate future but some movement to the Canadian fleet may occur as coal demand bottoms out.

[Denny]

Besides the Boland in drydock at Fraser in Superior, I’d also keep an eye out at Sturgeon Bay as well. The American Integrity is there along with the American Mariner and H. Lee White. So far I think the Integrity has gone into the large graving dock with no changes so far. We will have to see IF the Mariner or White enters the drydock and if anything new is done to them? Also keep an eye out in Toledo as well for any possible changes there that may come about. Would they possibly repaint the stacks and logos? I could see that happening at some point this year to where the stacks are completely painted all black covering up the ASC stack logos to where one wouldn’t see that anymore. Just my thoughts.

[Guest]

I suspect that in the near term you may see some of the smaller ASC boats working LLT contracts, such as loading salt in Fairport Harbor, as one of the immediate changes.

[Guest]

They did sell the ASC name, the office, the contracts, the boats. Everything. Not much is going to change for the time being, just a new corporate master.