USS Forrestal fate

[wlbblw]

The sinking of America was shrouded in secrecy. They didn't report it until weeks after & the actual tests they did remain unknown.

One other issue with ship sales to other countries is the fact that some of these old ships are pretty well worn out & some of them are to the point where parts & equipment is hard to maintain, repair, or even find parts for. These laid up carriers have been used as parts hulks to keep other ships in the fleet running.

[Wheelsman]

Many thanks to all who responded to my post on the whereabouts of the CVs and BBs. A lot of info to digest, most of it very surprising. I know the Oriskany had been sunk, but didn't know the America was, too. Wow. On the matter of ships to foreign navies, I was at Midway Island during the thick of the MAP (military assistance) program, and saw many of our Gearing and Sumner destroyers on their maiden voyages under Taiwan and South Korean flags stopping for fuel on their way to their new countries. The most interesting was the 1975 visit of 3 ex-Sumners (I'd have to look up the names) which were now in the Iranian Navy. They seemed friendly enough during their stay and it stuck with me through the hostage crises which erupted 4 years later. Through it all, I wonder what eventually happened to those destroyers. Just goes to show you have to watch who you sell warships to, as they could end up as enemies later. The Navy at first regretted that move, but the ships were quite obsolete by then. They were pretty much all-gun DDs with twin 5 inch mounts but they may have had ASROCs or some other then-current electronics or technology on them.

[Guest]

The Wisconsin is or was laid up at Bremerton, WA and is slated for a museum if anyone comes forward and requests her.

She's already a museum ship in Norfolk.

The U.S. Navy and Coast Guard routinely transfer ships to other countries Navy's, but the exception seems to be submarines and Carriers. I am not sure of the reason, could be the transfer of technology and/or the fact that most are nuclear powered.

They're too expensive to operate for the vast majority of the navy's around the world. The Forrestal for instance had a crew of 5,500 men. Yet using the Royal Canadian Navy as an example of a capable navy more powerful than most of those in the world (And one that had a carrier component into the 1970's), their entire active personnel roster is only 8,500 men. That's 65% of their manpower for a single ship.

Simply too expensive for the vast majority of the world. There's no allies to donate something like the Forrestal to so it never happens. Rumors are that we even tried with the Kitty Hawk to give it to India on the condition that they purchase Super Hornets but they didn't bite and they're probably the best candidate for such a deal.

I'm sure if a friendly nation came knocking, a deal could be formed for probably just about anything including SSBN's if a country like the UK suddenly wanted to buy our old ones instead.

[Guest]

Although fossil fuel boiler fired steam vessels, the Forrestal class carriers were supposed to be the first with a new generation of 1200 PSI high pressure steam boilers. There were problems early on though, so the Forrestal launched with 600 PSI boilers. The Saratoga was the first in the class to run at 1200 PSI but experienced more than the usual shakedown problems and it seems boiler troubles dogged her throughout her career.

[Paul A]

Nuke is steam powered. Think how quiet that engineering space is! Very interesting thread all.

[wlbblw]

Negative. They are building All nuclear powered carriers & subs. The new Ford class is nuclear.

[Chief]

If they aren't going to build any more CVN's, is the Navy going back to steam powered carriers? Seems like taking a step back in technology by about 7 decades.

[wlbblw]

They prefer Nuke power for the carriers so they have the endurance required to stay out to sea without the fuel supply problems of a conventional ship & the dangers of underway replenishment.

[Denny]

So, if I am understanding this right, they are building and making a new USS John F. Kennedy aircraft carrier? I thought they were in the process of stopping construction on the new nuclear powered carriers at some point? At least I thought I heard this some time back but, maybe I mis-heard it or something. They also had the new USS Gerald R. Ford christened at Newport News, Virginia on Saturday also. Now that I think about it though, I thought it was said that the George H.W. Bush would be the last nuclear carrier built for the U.S. Navy?

[Guest]

CVN-79 John F. Kennedy is currently under construction and won't enter service until 2020, possibly 2022. The CV-67 John F. Kennedy decommissioned in 2007.

[Chief]

Thee were two USS John F. Kennedy's CV-67 and CVN-79?

[wlbblw]

The other carrier in Philly is the Forestall.

The carrier in Providence is the Saratoga.

[Guest]

The carrier that remains in Newport after the Forrestal left is indeed the USS Saratoga CV-60, which has become a poster child for failed museum ship endeavors. The USS Saratoga Museum Foundation used money contributed by Sara vets and others to purchase and operate a Russian submarine museum ship (K-77 or K-19 or K-81 at various times) at the site of the would-be USS Saratoga museum. The sub ended up sinking at the dock and being scrapped. While all of this was going on Sara was sitting at the other end of Narragansett Bay deteriorating to the point the Navy eventually took her off museum/donation hold, so the foundation somehow morphed into the "RI Avaition Hall of Fame's USS John F Kennedy Aircraft Carrier Project".

[Chief]

USS John F. Kennedy CV-67 is in Philadelphia along with another carrier awaiting her fate. USS Iowa was in the Suson Bay Ghost Fleet and is and has been taken to Long Beach for Museum. The Wisconsin is or was laid up at Bremerton, WA and is slated for a museum if anyone comes forward and requests her. Heard that there were also a couple carriers laid up at Newport, RI awaiting Navy action on their disposal or relocation. The U.S. Navy and Coast Guard routinely transfer ships to other countries Navy's, but the exception seems to be submarines and Carriers. I am not sure of the reason, could be the transfer of technology and/or the fact that most are nuclear powered.

[wlbblw]

The Enterprise was decommissioned & is currently being scrapped.

The Iowa was never repaired. The Turret #2 was cleaned of the explosion damage, cosmetically restored, fixed in train, & sealed. She is now a museum in LA.

Wisconsin is a museum in Norfolk.

America was sunk in the Atlantic.

Ranger is in Bremerton waiting to be scrapped.

Kitty Hawk is in the Ready Reserve Fleet.

Independence is in Puget Sound, stripped of parts, & waiting to be scrapped.

Constellation is in Bremerton waiting to be scrapped.

[Wheelsman]

This thread has piqued my interest, being ex-Navy. Does anyone know the location/status of the other supercarriers such as the Ranger CV61, Independence 62, Kitty Hawk 63, Constellation 64, America 66 (which for some reason was decommissioned some time ago at a very young age)? I'm hearing the Enterprise 65 is still sailing, and anything hull number 67 up is still sailing. And while I'm at it, of the Iowa class battleships, I know the New Jersey BB62 and Missouri 63 are museums; what's with the Iowa 61 (assuming she was repaired after the turret incident), and Wisconsin 64? Museums, too?

[wlbblw]

No ferry service anymore, they said it just stopped running.

The Navy Yard has a main gate, you have to ask the guard. She was very nice & informative. The lighting changes as the day goes by & the ships are docked at all different angles so it all depends on when you are there & what you want to get pictures of.

[ray]

is there still ferry service to the navy yard from across the delaware river as there was in the 50,s?

[Guest]

What time of day is best for photos? Do you have to sign in or is it just park and walk in?

[wlbblw]

The other one you saw in Providence was her sister ship, the USS Saratoga & she's still there.

The public is allowed into the Philadelphia Navy Yard, but if you go on weekends (like I did) you have to park outside the gate & walk in. There's a lot of walking to do if you want to see everything but, as you can tell, it was well worth it. Lots to see & I get the feeling that most of those ships there won't be around too much longer.