Boatnerd Discussion Forum

I'm the original poster of this thread and would like to thank everyone for all their help. As noted earlier I'm in the process of cataloging this collection and will have more to post in the very near future.

I'm not the original poster of your photo, but it does appear in the Shipspotting website. I thought I recognized the photo as I came across it a few months ago while doing some research on the Westdale fleet.

Thanks. I was just wondering. That makes sense. My philosophy is photographs, by definition, should be seen (hence my placing it on Shipspotting!).

William Lafferty wrote:

Another one here:

I'm curious. Where did you find my photo of the Avondale?

I'm not the original poster of your photo, but it does appear in the Shipspotting website. I thought I recognized the photo as I came across it a few months ago while doing some research on the Westdale fleet. Here is the current link:

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/pho ... lid=330031

William Lafferty wrote:

Another one here:

I'm curious. Where did you find my photo of the Avondale?

A simple GOOGLE search yielded that photo. Nothing fancy.

herb wrote:I am not certain but there are major differences between the post card and the later pictures of Avondale, particularly the cabin below the pilot house is turret style in the postcard and square in the later photo, might have been a rebuild, and the Avondale is much longer than the postcard vessel, perhaps lengthened in her career. Perhaps someone like JB of the TMHS can opine for certain

We're talking about the second self unloader to the right in the card, not the one in the centre that is easily identified as Fontana.

Herb, everyone's talking of the second self-unloader in the postcard to the right side of the picture.

I am not certain but there are major differences between the post card and the later pictures of Avondale, particularly the cabin below the pilot house is turret style in the postcard and square in the later photo, might have been a rebuild, and the Avondale is much longer than the postcard vessel ...

The vessel in the postcard definitely appears to have a rectangular cabin, not a turret. The Avondale, as Adam E. Cornelius, was lengthened to 475' at Manitowoc when converted to a self unloader in 1942. The Fontana was 363' in length. The Avondale had a 181' unloading boom; the Fontana 150.' Given these dimensions, it appears the vessel in the post card is about the same length as the Avondale if its size relative to the Fontana is considered.

I am not certain but there are major differences between the post card and the later pictures of Avondale, particularly the cabin below the pilot house is turret style in the postcard and square in the later photo, might have been a rebuild, and the Avondale is much longer than the postcard vessel, perhaps lengthened in her career. Perhaps someone like JB of the TMHS can opine for certain

Another one here:

I'm curious. Where did you find my photo of the Avondale?

Here is the photo that sold me on it being the Rand:



Another one here:


I noticed the exposed anchors and dual mooring pulley blocks at the very bow of the boat. Clearly visable in the postcard. I just should have zoomed in a little closer.

Here's a pic of the damage the Royalton suffered after her collision with the Monrovia. I see no such damage in postcard #4.

William Lafferty wrote:
Card 4. The Royalton collided with the Liberian freighter Monrovia on 25 June 1959 on Lake Huron off Thunder Bay, sinking the latter. This could show her being accompanied to a Detroit area shipyard by what appears to be the Superior of GLTCo. I'm not sure the Ruth Hindman is actually towing the vessel in this view, though.

You are probably correct about the Royalton being towed down the river following its collision with the Monrovia. A search of newspaper accounts describing this accident reveal the Royalton went to Sarnia to discharge at least part of her grain cargo following the collision before continuing to Port Colborne. Loaded at Duluth, the Royalton's cargo was destined for delivery to Montreal. I know that John O. Greenwood did a history of the Misener fleet in Volume 10 of his Fleet Histories Series. Unfortunately this one of two in this series I do not have. As he described many such incidents involving other ships in his other books in great detail, there may be a detailed account of this accident in that book. The only question I have is the apparent lack of bow damage to the Royalton in the postcard image. On page 3 of Skip Gillham's Seaway Era Shipwrecks there is a photograph of the Royaltonat Port Colborne after the collision with significant bow damage.

I believe card 3 is the Fontana and Joseph S. Young.

The Fontana went to the breakers in 1960. The second Joseph S. Young, the former Wilpen and David P. Thompson didn't come under Boland & Cornelius ownership until 1961, renamed such eight years later. It also had a squat stack after being repowered with a Unaflow in 1959. The first Joseph S. Young was a converted T2-SE-A1 tanker, much larger than the vessel shown, and its stern section very much indicated its T-2 heritage, not reflected in the image provided, particularly the funnel and its placement. The first Young also had one of those distinctive and wide John J. Boland/Detroit Edison pilothouses, which doesn't appear in the image.

The best indicator is the Rand's odd three portholes forward. Here's a view of it as Avondale, and it looks very much like the vessel in the card.

Ah, yes, you are correct,...it is indeed the old Avondale. The lack of anchor pockets and those four big portholes lock it up as the George F. Rand.

William Lafferty wrote:Card 1. I think it is the Wolvin. It appears to be her original stack, which was replaced when her cabins were rebuilt in the 1950s.

Card 2. Baird Tewksbury.

Card 3. Fontana and George F. Rand. The latter was the only large American Steamship self-unloader without prominent bridge wings, and the size appears correct. It had been laid-up at Toledo prior to its sale to Reoch. That may be the Lyman or Hoffman in the distance, which mostly worked Lake Erie.

Card 4. The Royalton collided with the Liberian freighter Monrovia on 25 June 1959 on Lake Huron off Thunder Bay, sinking the latter. This could show her being accompanied to a Detroit area shipyard by what appears to be the Superior of GLTCo. I'm not sure the Ruth Hindman is actually towing the vessel in this view, though.

I agree with Mr. Lafferty's assessment, Duluth Guest, note that the vessel in card 3 is not George F. Rand [1] that you are referring to, but George F. Rand [2] that was retired as Roech's Avondale [2]. It is clearly neither of the vessels that carried the name Joseph S. Young, Fontana was scrapped before David P. Thompson took that name and it is clearly not the T2 conversion.

The vessel in question on card 3 isn't the George F. Rand, the self unloading gear is all wrong and she doesn't have a Texas deck like the Rand. I believe card 3 is the Fontana and Joseph S. Young.

The Interlake boat is the Wolvin. There weren't many of her fleetmates that early in her career who had one piece hatches. Notice the hatch crane tucked up close to the foc'sle in the postcard.

Card 1. I think it is the Wolvin. It appears to be her original stack, which was replaced when her cabins were rebuilt in the 1950s.

Card 2. Baird Tewksbury.

Card 3. Fontana and George F. Rand. The latter was the only large American Steamship self-unloader without prominent bridge wings, and the size appears correct. It had been laid-up at Toledo prior to its sale to Reoch. That may be the Lyman or Hoffman in the distance, which mostly worked Lake Erie.

Card 4. The Royalton collided with the Liberian freighter Monrovia on 25 June 1959 on Lake Huron off Thunder Bay, sinking the latter. This could show her being accompanied to a Detroit area shipyard by what appears to be the Superior of GLTCo. I'm not sure the Ruth Hindman is actually towing the vessel in this view, though.

Card 1: Copyrighted 1956 showing an Interlake Steamship Company bulker downbound in the St. Clair River. Although blurry, a close examination of the name on the ship appears to have a first and last name with a middle initial. I initially thought it was the Augustus B. Wolvin but the stack appears to be wrong for this timeframe.

When you put a screen grab photo of your postcard along side a cropped photo of the Augustus B. Wolvin taken in 1966 that I found doing a GIS- Your postcard sure looks like the Wolvin.

This isn't conclusive proof, but it goes a long way to substantiate your opinion that it's the Augustus B. Wolvin.

I'm in the process of cataloging a postcard collection and was wondering if anyone could assist in identifying some of the ships in the following images. I had to reduce the quality of these images to submit to this forum so I will do my best to describe each.

Card 1: Copyrighted 1956 showing an Interlake Steamship Company bulker downbound in the St. Clair River. Although blurry, a close examination of the name on the ship appears to have a first and last name with a middle initial. I initially thought it was the Augustus B. Wolvin but the stack appears to be wrong for this timeframe.

Card 2: This card shows a Midland Steamship steamer entering Duluth. Someone had noted on the back that it is the Michael K. Tewksbury, but the name painted onto the front of the aft cabins does not appear to have a middle initial. Card has no copyright and the name on the bow is too washed out to be read.

Card 3: This card shows two American Steamship self-unloaders at Toledo, with one still in layup with windows shuttered. The ship in the front is the Fontana, but I have questions concerning the one immediately behind her. Barely visible in the far background is a USACE dredge (Hains or Markham). No copyright or postmark.

Card 4: This card is copyrighted 1962 and shows the Royalton being assisted down the St. Clair River by two tugboats just downriver of the Blue Water Bridge. Does anyone know of why this was necessary?

Thanks for all of your replies. This is a major project and will most likely be posting more as the need arises.