Boatnerd Discussion Forum

by **Denny** » March 23, 2016, 2:25 pm

Gentleman I have read all comments here and agree about how on the Canadian side they have gotten rid of many of lakers in the past 15 years or so. Also, take a look at how Algoma tankers is now downsizing their tanker fleet from just a few short years ago? The Algoeast was sold "Off-Lakes and the Algosar may be done as well." Also, Algoscotia is I think on a charter for 3-4 months and they have also been re-flagged to Barbados. Even the Desgagnes tanker Sarah Desgagnes is working trades overseas as well right now. Desgagnes I heard once was building new tankers and they were going to retire Thalassa Desgagnes and one other one also. Look also with Desgagnes how they have gotten rid of both the Petrolia Desgagnes and now the Vega Desgagnes and they also got rid of the Catherine Desgagnes. Like what many have said here about the past 10-15 years with the Canadian boats, lots of them have left us and our shores with many more to leave us and soon.

by **frus** » March 23, 2016, 11:36 am

and it's not over yet. before we hit the next decade I bet we will see LLT gone likely sold off by Rand to CSL and both they and Algoma will be down to handful of ships each. Last one out shut off the lights.

by **Guest** » March 23, 2016, 9:46 am

Guest wrote:I find the downsizing of the Canadian fleet since 2000 as dramatic as that experienced by the US fleet during the 1980s.

The time between 2000-2004 seemed to indeed be the time many of the greats were killed off. Algosound, Algogulf, Algoriver, Seaway Queen, Mapleglen, Oakglen, Vandoc, Quedoc, Canadian Venture, Canadian Trader, Canadian Voyager, Canadian Mariner and more. All just memories now.

And it didn't stop at 2004, it's been a steady parade to the scrapyard since as well, where even more greats have been done away with.

by **Guest** » March 23, 2016, 8:52 am

I find the downsizing of the Canadian fleet since 2000 as dramatic as that experienced by the US fleet during the 1980s. By my count no less than 27 ships that were members of the Algoma and ULS fleets in 2000 havegone to the breakers as of last year not counting the others listed as being retired by Algoma during the closing weeks of the season. Although Algoma brought in some ex-saltwater bulkers and has put some new ships from China into operation, there has been a definite reduction in capacity over the past 15 years.

by **Guest** » March 21, 2016, 6:19 pm

old sailer wrote:I been down in the South all winter and someone just posted that Lambton generater is running on natural gas. That would be great news but before I came down here in Novenber it was just sitting colecting dust.

Guest may have meant that a conversion to NG was being considered for the plant. Didn't I read a few years back that they dismantled the coal handling equipment at the site? I haven't been in the area since last fall (I have reduced my visits to the area in direct relation to slow down in vessel traffic) but I believe the hopper at the dock was still there. I have read the plant opened in 1969, and I was borne one year earlier. I seem to recall, however, some construction still going on when I was around 4 years old which would have been in 1972 when I lived in Marine City before moving to Georgia.

by **J Kerwin** » March 21, 2016, 5:21 pm

Lambton Generating Station is not running on Natural Gas. All four turbines are mothballed and sitting idle. There has been talk of natural gas conversion but I doubt it will ever happen. The Ontario government decided to go with wind power and stations like Lambton do not fit into their long term plans.

by **Guest** » March 21, 2016, 5:11 pm

Denny wrote: Also remember not too long ago as well where there used to be lineups of ships waiting to unload coal at Nanticoke G.S. as well. Remember when they even had a few 1,000 footers bringing in loads of coal just a few short years ago! Now Nanticoke only gets a short supply of coal to keep it going nothing like it was just a few short years ago.

Nanticoke is done too. Being put into cold shutdown and left to rot.

by **old sailer** » March 21, 2016, 4:11 pm

I been down in the South all winter and someone just posted that Lambton generater is running on natural gas. That would be great news but before I came down here in Novenber it was just sitting colecting dust.

by **ray2** » March 21, 2016, 1:11 pm

Lambton generating station1s shut down

by **Denny** » March 21, 2016, 7:46 am

Guest I have read your comments and agree with you 100% on everything you had to say on the subject. You are correct to about the "line-up of ships at one time waiting to unload coal cargoes at the Lambton G.S. plant!" I sure do remember those days when you would see the Algomas and CSL ships but mostly Algoma/ULS ones there unloading all the time. As you said those days are long gone now that Lambton has switched over to NG. Also remember not too long ago as well where there used to be lineups of ships waiting to unload coal at Nanticoke G.S. as well. Remember when they even had a few 1,000 footers bringing in loads of coal just a few short years ago! Now Nanticoke only gets a short supply of coal to keep it going nothing like it was just a few short years ago. Times are indeed changing rather we admit it and like it or not and with it so goes the changes in the shipping industry with fewer boats for us to watch and photograph. Enjoy the ships while we can for now!

by **Guest** » March 21, 2016, 6:59 am

Guest wrote:Its not only the competiveness of the seaway. But the decline in the customers it serves. Coal is in a steep decline. Iron ore as well. With fewer and fewer docks to serve, the need for capacity is gone. They can do it with larger, more profitable ships, as well as fewer.

Lets not forget that the decline in coal tonnages is a permanent adjustment reflecting the shift away from coal to natural gas for power plants. I remember not so long ago seeing one ship after another unloading at the Lambton Generating plant on the St. Clair River. All of this traffic is now gone following the conversion to NG a number of years ago. On the U.S. side, things are not much better. If the DTE Belle River plant at Recor switched to NG, I would not be surprised to see at least two thousand footers go to the wall, resulting in the first scrapping of a vessel in that class. It seems like the Great Lakes Shipping industry is facing some hard times, not unlike those of the 1980s.

With shipping companies reducing their fleets due to overcapacity, it is apparent to me that they don't see tonnages taking an upswing in the very near future as it would take time to construct new vessels.

by **Guest** » March 20, 2016, 10:31 pm

tugboathunter wrote:In regard to guest's comment about the Algosoo extension, that was based on something I was told that I think may have been false. It was reported to have been a 2-year extension, but she ran for 3 years and Algoma mentioned that 2 of the retirements were "ahead of schedule". That has led me to believe she received a normal 5-year at Bayship and was originally supposed to operate in 2016.

Understood. According to the official Canadian ship registry database her(Algosoo) certificate officially expires 2017-05-31.

by **tugboathunter** » March 20, 2016, 10:10 pm

In regard to guest's comment about the Algosoo extension, that was based on something I was told that I think may have been false. It was reported to have been a 2-year extension, but she ran for 3 years and Algoma mentioned that 2 of the retirements were "ahead of schedule". That has led me to believe she received a normal 5-year at Bayship and was originally supposed to operate in 2016.

by **Denny** » March 20, 2016, 8:22 pm

Let's not forget that Algoma has invested plenty of dollars into the new building program for their fleet. Also remember that before the Nantong Shipyard filed for bankruptcy, one of the scheduled new ships and a self-unloader was to be named "Algoma Sault" as it was made public from Algoma. I don't mean to say anything bad only making a point is all "Why would Algoma want to invest bucks into a 40 or more year old ship such as the Algosoo and older still the Algosteel when newer ships will be built and brought here from Croatia and China within the next 1-2 years? Again, no pun here as I am just making a mute point is all. Just my two cents only here!

by **Guest** » March 20, 2016, 4:00 pm

mn brett wrote:Why is the Algosoo being sent to scrap?,but the Algosteel is being saved as a spare Boat?,The Algosoo is newer and looks so much more modern!. Thank You mn brett

According to Tugboathunter's former blog, Algosoo failed her most recent 5 year inspection and got some sort of temporary operating extension. Along with the fact that it probably expires in 2017, I imagine she needs millions in proper repairs and Algoma just dosen't think it's worth it.

by **tugboathunter** » March 20, 2016, 3:46 pm

To mn brett, either the Algosoo's certificate has expired (which I don't think it has), or the Algosteel is in better shape, which is possible since she was converted to a self-unloader in 1990 and normally stays away from the lower St. Lawrence & Gulf (saltwater).

by **Guest** » March 20, 2016, 10:34 am

Its not only the competiveness of the seaway. But the decline in the customers it serves. Coal is in a steep decline. Iron ore as well. With fewer and fewer docks to serve, the need for capacity is gone. They can do it with larger, more profitable ships, as well as fewer.

by **mn brett** » March 20, 2016, 9:23 am

Why is the Algosoo being sent to scrap?,but the Algosteel is being saved as a spare Boat?,The Algosoo is newer and looks so much more modern!. Thank You mn brett

by **Guest** » March 20, 2016, 7:24 am

TWilush wrote:According to the fleet list on Algoma's 2015 annual report, Algoma Navigator, Algosoo, Algomarine, Peter R. Cresswell and Algosar will be retired. Algosteel is in cold layup status as a spare boat.

When was the last time a company retired that much capacity in one move ?

by **Guest** » March 19, 2016, 10:09 pm

frus wrote:the seaway has never lived up to its potential; it was built too small
because of political interference from the railways, the locks should have been 1000 x 100 feet and channel depth should have been set at a minimum 30 foot draft. Then you have everyone sucking the life out of it from a cost perspective rendering it unable to compete with the mississippi river. Sadly indeed its best days are behind it

And the combined size of the domestic fleet, gets smaller and smaller every year.

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