Ore records

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Re: Ore records

by Guest » September 29, 2017, 4:46 pm

Denny wrote:A little bit off subject here but, I want to see a new coal record set as well through the locks this year! In 1997 I believe it was, back then the Columbia Star now the American Century set the record for coal with a load exceeding 70,900 tons or something like that? We all know the Bay Ship footers are heavy carriers and haulers so I say let's get it done soon and get a coal load through at 71-72,000 if it can be done on either the Wally Mac, Indiana Harbor, American Century or the American Integrity! I say to put it into the Integrity so she can have two records this year, one for Ore and the other for Coal through the Soo Locks. That then would really be an amazing record!
With this high water it is not possible to get a footer down to the max allowable draft with coal. Coal is a cubic cargo, and at these drafts you can just fill the whole boat, although in a pattern to not stress the hull. The variable is how dense the coal is. Not every chuck of coal is created equal. If you happen to have some denser coal you can end up with a bit more tonnage with the same volume than on another load with coal that was not as dense. Moisture content in the coal is also a factor in the weight. If someone breaks the coal record it will be by chance because of getting denser coal for that particular load.

Re: Ore records

by Duluth Guest » September 29, 2017, 12:10 pm

The American Integrity headed to Duluth for a load of coal so she isn't going to break her own record this trip. The Gott, however, is almost finished loading in TH and she's already loaded down enough to partially submerge the stern anchor pocket. They certainly are taking advantage of the high water levels this year.

Re: Ore records

by Jon Paul » September 29, 2017, 9:46 am

Jared wrote:I think the loses of the John Boland in the 40's prohibited or restricted vessels from carrying cargo without their hatches secured. I could be mistaken.
That is incorrect. The Robert McNamara ran from Toledo to the Ford Complex with open hatches until it went for scrap in 1974. The Sylvania and other coal boats also ran with open hatches from Toledo to Conners Creek just North of Belle Isle and into Trenton, MI when I was sailing in the 70's.

Re: Ore records

by Jared » September 28, 2017, 11:45 pm

I think the loses of the John Boland in the 40's prohibited or restricted vessels from carrying cargo without their hatches secured. I could be mistaken.

Re: Ore records

by Guest » September 28, 2017, 8:53 pm

Denny wrote:I recall seeing a few Algoma ships in the mid to late 1990s at the Locks with coal for Algoma. There were some with the hatches open but, maybe because they were going to Algoma and getting them ready for when they arrived at the plant. I think the ones I recall were the Algomarine and Algosteel? The John B. Aird I got once in the Mac Lock with coal for Algoma but, I think they had all of their hatches fastened up and none were open. Hope that this all helps.
Probably the hatches were taken off right before they got to the dock. If they had coal they wouldn't have transited Lake Superior or come all the way from Lake Erie with there hatches off.

Re: Ore records

by garbear » September 28, 2017, 8:49 pm

Guest wrote:Although I have several pictures in my collections of ships carrying coal with their hatches open, I believe this practice died out several years and was primarily done on Lake Erie to points on the Detroit River, St. Clair River, and the Welland Canal. I have one picture of the Canadian Progress passing through the Welland with coal and its hatches are open. I'm assuming it was going to Hamilton with the load. I don't believe I have ever heard of this being done on Lake Superior but if it had I would imagine there would be some photos of ships passing through the locks in this configuration. I assume that new Coast Guard regulations or liability issues eliminated this practice. I believe the Robert S. McNamara was modified late in its career to operate with an open deck between Toledo and the Rouge River on the coal run to the Ford complex.
When we unloaded in Conneaut in the 70's saw a lot of Canadian self-unloader depart the coal dock with coal piled over the coaming. Think a lot of boats went to the power plant in Nanticoke.

Re: Ore records

by Denny » September 28, 2017, 6:08 pm

I recall seeing a few Algoma ships in the mid to late 1990s at the Locks with coal for Algoma. There were some with the hatches open but, maybe because they were going to Algoma and getting them ready for when they arrived at the plant. I think the ones I recall were the Algomarine and Algosteel? The John B. Aird I got once in the Mac Lock with coal for Algoma but, I think they had all of their hatches fastened up and none were open. Hope that this all helps.

Re: Ore records

by Rob W » September 28, 2017, 5:17 pm

Yes you are correct about the McNamara, as the coast guard made an exception because of how close Toledo was to the Rouge. Also she was on a dedicated coal run, which also made it possible. Don't think the Coasties are too quick to let something like that happen unless it's close from port to port.

Rob W

Re: Ore records

by Guest » September 28, 2017, 4:46 pm

Although I have several pictures in my collections of ships carrying coal with their hatches open, I believe this practice died out several years and was primarily done on Lake Erie to points on the Detroit River, St. Clair River, and the Welland Canal. I have one picture of the Canadian Progress passing through the Welland with coal and its hatches are open. I'm assuming it was going to Hamilton with the load. I don't believe I have ever heard of this being done on Lake Superior but if it had I would imagine there would be some photos of ships passing through the locks in this configuration. I assume that new Coast Guard regulations or liability issues eliminated this practice. I believe the Robert S. McNamara was modified late in its career to operate with an open deck between Toledo and the Rouge River on the coal run to the Ford complex.

Re: Ore records

by trvguy » September 28, 2017, 3:34 pm

One trip on the Indiana Harbor we loaded 64,600 tons of coal at smelt. Thru the rock had 2 feet of water under us.

Re: Ore records

by hausen » September 28, 2017, 2:31 pm

Bigboat wrote:When that record for coal was set was that the maximum amount that could possibly be carried by volume or was there still room for more cargo to be loaded. Just thinking obviously coal would take up more space than ore per ton.
I believe when those 1990s coal records were set, the cubic capacity of the ships' holds were nearly or completely maxed out. The ship that set the record from Superior to Taconite Harbor may have even had a hatch or two open with coal piled above the coamings. Not 100% sure about that detail.

If all of that was indeed the case, available depth of water past a certain point in the 27' - 28' range wouldn't be the limiting factor. That might explain why ore-carrying ships are drafting over 28' through the Soo these days but nobody appears to be setting coal records.

Re: Ore records

by scout » September 28, 2017, 11:56 am

i too have been watching with interest as the American Integrity and the Edwin H. Gott have been traveling together these past couple days...the two most recent record holders...20 year high water levels...bragging rights on the line...makes for some fun anticipation on both of these vessels next loading port stops.

Re: Ore records

by Duluth Guest » September 28, 2017, 8:28 am

I think the tricky part of setting the coal record is going to be the draft limitations within St. Louis Bay in Duluth. The South Channel, Eastern Section, which is where the SMET is located, is only 22-26 ft. deep per the 11-2015 survey. This played into the ore loads as well; all of this years record loads were loaded at Two Harbors where the harbor is deeper.

Re: Ore records

by Denny » September 26, 2017, 12:16 pm

Just checked it out on the Facts and Figures part of this website and in 1997, the Columbia Star now American Century set a coal record of 70,903 officially through the Soo Locks for the St. Clair Power Plant at that time. In 1993 the Indiana Harbor set a coal record at that time of 71,369 but this was taken to either Silver Bay or possibly to Taconite Harbor thus, there were no draft limitations since they did not have to transit through the Soo Locks. Sorry to go off subject but to answer your question somewhat, I would think they might be able to go beyond 70,000 and at least get to 71,000 tons of coal as they were not too far away from that in 1997. Would sure like to see at least somebody set a new record this year for it and why not have the American Integrity do it since now she's got the record for the largest ever ore cargo through the locks. Time will tell on this one!

Re: Ore records

by Bigboat » September 26, 2017, 10:06 am

When that record for coal was set was that the maximum amount that could possibly be carried by volume or was there still room for more cargo to be loaded. Just thinking obviously coal would take up more space than ore per ton.

Re: Ore records

by Denny » September 26, 2017, 9:38 am

A little bit off subject here but, I want to see a new coal record set as well through the locks this year! In 1997 I believe it was, back then the Columbia Star now the American Century set the record for coal with a load exceeding 70,900 tons or something like that? We all know the Bay Ship footers are heavy carriers and haulers so I say let's get it done soon and get a coal load through at 71-72,000 if it can be done on either the Wally Mac, Indiana Harbor, American Century or the American Integrity! I say to put it into the Integrity so she can have two records this year, one for Ore and the other for Coal through the Soo Locks. That then would really be an amazing record!

Ore records

by Guest » September 25, 2017, 10:40 pm

Makes you wish they'd set up one last load out of Escanaba to reset the overall Great Lakes record. I want to see the Burns Harbor get the record.

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