Boatnerd Discussion Forum

Ok, apparantly I have to clarify my statement. This thread started as a post about ice conditions on Lake St Clair. Then it Segwayed into ice jams on the St.Clair River where it opens up into Lake St Clair.
The South Channel is not the primary navigation channel that directly connects the River to Lake St Clair.
The St Clair Cutoff does.

The S Channel is the main channel between Russel Is JB and SE Bend, then the cutoff takes over from there to LSC.

Jon Paul wrote:The South Channel is NOT the main shipping channel. The St Clair Cutoff is.

The South Channel is the main shipping channel. The South Channel of the St. Clair River starts at the head of Russell Island and continues to the head of Seaway Island. The St. Clair Cutoff is from the head of Seaway Island to where the St. Clair River empties into Lake St. Clair.

Jon Paul wrote:The South Channel is NOT the main shipping channel. The St Clair Cutoff is.

Well, it is the South Channel all the way from Russell's Island down to the short shoot Cut Off Channel.

The South Channel is NOT the main shipping channel. The St Clair Cutoff is.

Bookworm,
Alas, I'm not Jared but I shall endeavor to show you with charts the reason dredging will not alleviate the ice problem!
The islands, curves and splitting of the river create the impediment to water and ice flow which clog at various points and then back up creating the flooding conditions.
Dredging wouldn't have any real effect and with recent water level increases (almost 2' for Lake Huron) that in itself was the same as dredging.
The average water depth of Lake St Clair outside of the channel is less than 18'.
On these frigid days where the average daily mean temperature are single digit ice can build at the rate of 3-5" per 24 hour period.
Also if you look at the charts, the channel is narrow and anything outside the channel is dangerous for even a freighter light and in ballast.

During the Winter Navigation Demontration Program on the 1970s, there were studies of where to place an Ice Control Structure between Port Huron and Sarnia, so as to maintain a natural ice bridge above Port Huron/Sarnia.

It's the repeated passage of ships through the natural ice bridge that causes excessive ice to flow into the St. Clair river and eventually up at the head of Lake St. Clair.

Here is a page from a book on the winter program and the then proposed ice structure.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=QtKFVc ... re&f=false

The results of dredging in the past has shown a long term negative impact on the entire system. More water is allowed to escape the lakes system and in most years, more water is lost than what is put into the upper lakes. Remember during the record low water levels a few years ago proposals were made about slowing the river down by underwater dams and a moriturum on dredging the river system. However although the river is more than deep enough to handle all shipping, Lake St. Clair acts as a massive speed bump due to its 15' average depth. The lake boats have to travel in a man made channel that needs constant dredging as the sediment builds up quickly. I've seen, heard, and felt freighters hit the bottom north of the light right before they enter the south channel.

Although the south channel is the main shipping channel, the north channel is the deepest and has the most water flow through it. When the north channel gets clogged with ice the river backs up and that puts more demand on the middle and south channels which in really cold winters will also begin to back up. Lake St. Clair right now has lost 2 feet of water in the last 6 days. The biggest issue we are dealing with are the new homes that people built when the water was at a record low and now not only are their houses flooding, but their breakwalls are being damaged by freighter wakes because they built them too low or not reinforced. So they want the boats (big and small) to have no wake....

Jared wrote:Another interesting fact is the 3 main channels that flow into Lake St. Clair are also shallow. When the ice gets thick, it turns and tumbles blocking the surface to the bottom and creates a dam effect. In fact as of this post there is a flood watch on the St. Clair River now as the ice is causing the water to back up. Another 3 feet and we're in trouble.

Jared, Inquiring minds "need" to know: In your opinion, would dredging one or all of these channels--financial factor aside--alleviate the problem to any degree, or would the swift-flowing water negate any positive results in a relatively short period of time?

Another interesting fact is the 3 main channels that flow into Lake St. Clair are also shallow. When the ice gets thick, it turns and tumbles blocking the surface to the bottom and creates a dam effect. In fact as of this post there is a flood watch on the St. Clair River now as the ice is causing the water to back up. Another 3 feet and we're in trouble.

Jon Paul wrote:

Bookworm wrote:January 4, 2018 3:15 p.m. After navigating from Marquette to Whitefish Bay, down the St. Marys River, Lake Huron, and the St. Clair River, Marine Traffic AIS indicates Lee A. Tregurtha (AK/Rouge) is stopped in her tracks in the middle of Lake St. Clair. Clyde Vanekevort (Zug) tried to assist but is now sitting still, as Samuel Risley steams toward them, followed by American Mariner (also Zug).

One of the issues with Lake St Clair is that because it is so shallow it freezes hard and fast. Also the fact that you have very little maneuvering room makes it even more problematic. Either you in the very defined channel or your aground.

Your response proved again that one is never too old to learn something new, Jon Paul. In my years of following ships on the St. Clair River, I learned sheets of ice would flow down out of Lake Huron, breaking up as they went. Depending on how long frigid temperatures remained in place, eventually the shards would cause a bottleneck at the lower end, which often backed up to at least Marine City, but I never knew the dynamics or shallow depth of Lake St. Clair and its potential for interrupting winter shipping. Thanks.

Bookworm wrote:January 4, 2018 3:15 p.m. After navigating from Marquette to Whitefish Bay, down the St. Marys River, Lake Huron, and the St. Clair River, Marine Traffic AIS indicates Lee A. Tregurtha (AK/Rouge) is stopped in her tracks in the middle of Lake St. Clair. Clyde Vanekevort (Zug) tried to assist but is now sitting still, as Samuel Risley steams toward them, followed by American Mariner (also Zug).

One of the issues with Lake St Clair is that because it is so shallow it freezes hard and fast. Also the fact that you have very little maneuvering room makes it even more problematic. Either you in the very defined channel or your aground.

January 4, 2018 3:15 p.m. After navigating from Marquette to Whitefish Bay, down the St. Marys River, Lake Huron, and the St. Clair River, Marine Traffic AIS indicates Lee A. Tregurtha (AK/Rouge) is stopped in her tracks in the middle of Lake St. Clair. Clyde Vanekevort (Zug) tried to assist but is now sitting still, as Samuel Risley steams toward them, followed by American Mariner (also Zug).