Boatnerd Discussion Forum

by **Guest** » August 12, 2018, 2:10 pm

The Hanna fleet was around until 1990. That's when they passed the M/V George A. Stinson over to Interlake on lease for five years. Dad sailed for Hanna from 1941 until retirement in 1982 as Captain of the Joseph H. Thompson. Through the years Hanna was the agent for National Steel. The George M. Humphrey of 1954 was the first laker with a 75 foot beam. Hanna mining had a large interest in the Iron Irom Company of Canada. They were affiliatedd with the Carryore Fleet Menihek Lake etc. too. They were very much a factor in lake shipping until the demise of National Steel Corporation and some poor investment decisions in the late 70s & early 80s. it was a wonderful company that carred for its employees. Mike

by **Alex** » August 12, 2018, 11:52 am

An extra footnote to Matt's post: M.A Hanna also managed the Joseph H. Thompson for Hansand Steampship.

by **William Lafferty** » August 12, 2018, 11:12 am

I see M.A. Hanna in there. I thought Hanna went under in 1916 as it was part of the Hawgood empire?

Captain Hawgood began liquidating his fleet around 1911 and the last units went to Pittsburgh Steamship on 1 January 1916. He retired at that point, and died at Cleveland in 1942. Hanna took over several Hawgood vessels during that period. In 1959 Hanna managed the National Steel fleet, the Matthew Andrews for Hanna Coal and Ore Corporation, and the Joseph H. Thompson for Hansand. M. A. Hanna Company still exists as an international plastics and chemical producer, still headquartered at Cleveland.

by **MattJ** » August 12, 2018, 11:10 am

By 1970 I have other paperwork identifying company as The Hanna Mining Company, Steamship Division

by **garbear** » August 12, 2018, 11:01 am

Found this also.
In 1958 Hanna's subsidiary, the Hanna Coal & Ore Company, became the independent Hanna Mining Company while M. A. Hanna continued with mineral sales and in its investment firm work until liquidation in 1965.

1970s
By the early 1970s, Hanna Mining was the world's second-largest producer of iron ore with United States Steel being the largest. Also during this decade, Hanna secured interests in petroleum, low sulfur coal, and mineral exploration. Hanna executives believed that the name Hanna Mining did not reflect the entire scope of what the company embodied and the name returned to M. A. Hanna Company in March 1985.

During the 1980s under CEO Martin D. Walker, M. A. Hanna began acquiring plastic and polymer companies while divesting itself of mining and energy property. Hanna purchased Burton Rubber Processing Company in 1986 and other polymer industries totaling sales of $1.1 billion in 1990. By 1993, M. A. Hanna's revenue from polymer processing was 99% of all revenue. By 1998, annual sales reached $2.3 billion annually. Hanna merged with polyvinyl chloride giant Geon Company, a former division of the B. F. Goodrich Company that became a separate entity in 1993. The merger produced PolyOne Corporation, a company worth $3.5 billion and ranked in the Fortune 1000.[3]

by **MattJ** » August 12, 2018, 9:45 am

The M.A. Hanna Company was still going as of this letter dated June 24, 1960

by **Jared** » August 11, 2018, 9:01 pm

I see M.A. Hanna in there. I thought Hanna went under in 1916 as it was part of the Hawgood empire?

by **William Lafferty** » August 11, 2018, 6:31 pm

I guess one can include Inland Steel, too, to add to what I said below.

by **William Lafferty** » August 11, 2018, 6:29 pm

And so many fleets. Only a few of these survive.

There were 119 different fleets on the lakes then. Of those, only three, Algoma, Canada Steamship, and Interlake, can trace direct and sustaining corporate histories back to 1959, although I suppose one could argue Huron Portland Cement and Pittsburgh Steamship still, sorta, continue the lineage, as well.

by **BigRiver** » August 11, 2018, 5:20 pm

When I look back at the 1959 Know Your Ships it is stunning to see how many boats were listed. And so many fleets. Only a few of these survive.

by **William Lafferty** » August 11, 2018, 5:02 pm

Mr. Lafferty, your choice is intriguing, why 1960?

The Canadian and American Great Lakes fleets numbered 680 vessels that year, ranging from the Ryerson to a lot of canallers still running, making for a diverse group to say the least. To add substantially to that diversity, the Seaway had opened the previous year allowing hundreds of deep-sea vessels into the lakes. There was a continual parade passing by Lookout Point at the Soo, at Port Huron, on the Welland. Chicago alone had five large steel mills along the Calumet and at least eight grain elevators, the river packed with traffic all day long during the shipping season. After that year more and more older canallers and lakers disappeared replaced by much fewer but much larger vessels. Here is a photograph showing clearly what I mean, with Calumet Harbor, almost six miles from the lake, with a total of 14 foreign ships there and another 14 on the Calumet River, and at Navy Pier, toward the end of the 1959 season. Consider, Reiss sailed an even dozen classic lakers that season, Hutchinson 21, and Pittsburgh 53. And virtually the entire Canadian fleet was in service.

by **Alex** » August 11, 2018, 10:12 am

William Lafferty wrote:
The last great yr for boat watching was 1981, after that things changed considerably on both sides of the lake.
I'll go with 1960. Yes. Definitely 1960!

Mr. Lafferty, your choice is intriguing, why 1960?

by **Guest** » August 10, 2018, 11:00 pm

Cleveland guest wrote:Same or worse was said in the 80s.

TRUE, and look what has happened since then? A parade of old inefficient ships sent to the scrappers and Aprox. 22 blast furnaces gone offline and torn down along with whole steel makers extinct, wheeling Pitt, Youngstown sheet and tube, warren steel, the list goes on. Coal shipments have declined somewhere around 20% in the past ten years.

by **Guest** » August 9, 2018, 9:38 am

I would do the same thing as van enkevort. Build new with modern technology and materials . New hull, more efficiency and with tug barge less crew costs. Their new build does not mean there is a rise in demand on the US side sufficient enough to think that the old hulls would be renovated. They must have or see an opportunity to increase THEIR business by taking away from another company. Maybe it is for the increase for the Toledo processing plant when it comes online. At any rate, they can have a much better ROI with new modern builds than they can with renovation of old hulls. Even if the Toledo plant increases tonnage it will be offset by declines in other materials, namely coal. There are also two or three solid boats still at the wall that don’t need wholesale expensive refits that can cover any short term rise in demand. Just my opinion.

by **Cleveland guest** » August 9, 2018, 6:52 am

Same or worse was said in the 80s.

by **Guest** » August 9, 2018, 5:57 am

If there is no future cargoes for such ships as the John Sherwin, then why in the world is Van Enkevort building a new tug and barge?

While nearly 70% of US raw steel production is now made in Electric-Arc Furnaces, Cleveland-Cliffs is building the Hot Briquetted Iron plant in Toledo to supply that market. That could potentially be an area of growth for the US laker fleet.

by **Guest** » August 8, 2018, 10:05 pm

Doubt you ever see the Sherwin or Ryerson sail again. Where are the cargoes for them? Coal will continue to decline, especially when the DE plants slated for closing go offline. Like the ships that are laid up, the plants are past their useful lives and whether you like it or not, tax payer funded wind and solar power are here to stay. Coal is economically disadvantaged now with cheap natural gas in huge supply so at some point coal will be mainly for use in the coke furnaces of integrated mills. Iron ore demand will decline for domestic use as more of the steel making capacity of the old integrated mills lessens. The next economic downturn will claim more blast furnaces into extinction. Ford is marching ahead to aluminum bodies in all their vehicles. Great Lakes steel (USS ecorse) took a huge hit in sales when the F150 went to aluminum. Mini mills like Nucor and steel dynamics have cut into the integrated mills market share and will continue to do so. Most growth in ore sales will be overseas and the Canadians have positioned themselves well to claim that shipping market. Old inefficient ships, not enough cargo... have no idea why Interlake keeps the Sherwin and the day is coming when the sentimentality to old man Ryerson will disapear and the bean counters won’t keep the ER around any longer. I wish it was not all true as I sailed on the old traditional lakers and enjoyed them much over the new style ... an end of an era.. move on and enjoy what is new on the horizon.

by **Mr Link** » August 8, 2018, 7:13 pm

Guest wrote:The last great yr for boat watching was 1981, after that things changed considerably on both sides of the lake.

I'll vote for 1916 although I'll admit I'm not quite that old. 25,407 vessel passages at the Soo in 245 days or 104 boats per day on average. 85% steamers.

I don't mind 2018 either, but I'm just as happy watching a fish tug or a spud barge pass as a laker.

by **Guest** » August 8, 2018, 6:01 pm

A listing of net tonnages moved on the Great Lakes by year from 1973 to 1986. My apologies for the formatting. The website doesn't work correctly when trying to paste a listing for some reason.

Year Iron Ore Coal Stone Total
1973 "105,890,708 " "39,604,341 " "42,888,052 " "188,383,101 "
1974 "98,087,334 " "34,989,243 " "43,096,337 " "176,172,914 "
1975 "89,460,420 " "39,192,505 " "37,681,469 " "166,334,394 "
1976 "97,012,941 " "37,493,151 " "38,203,609 " "172,709,701 "
1977 "75,096,080 " "38,984,388 " "37,219,714 " "151,300,182 "
1978 "99,548,390 " "37,766,570 " "39,754,445 " "177,069,405 "
1979 "103,100,405 " "45,883,297 " "36,976,066 " "185,959,768 "
1980 "81,723,442 " "41,306,125 " "28,011,339 " "151,040,906 "
1981 "83,893,203 " "39,096,577 " "24,586,743 " "147,576,523 "
1982 "43,134,081 " "36,759,518 " "15,077,245 " "94,970,844 "
1983 "58,335,209 " "36,578,742 " "18,418,662 " "113,332,613 "
1984 "64,136,610 " "43,134,292 " "23,156,860 " "130,427,762 "
1985 "58,364,037 " "36,334,525 " "24,992,777 " "119,691,339 "
1986 "51,017,057 " "36,266,922 " "27,225,922 " "114,509,901 "

by **William Lafferty** » August 8, 2018, 4:06 pm

The last great yr for boat watching was 1981, after that things changed considerably on both sides of the lake.

I'll go with 1960. Yes. Definitely 1960!

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