Boatnerd Discussion Forum

I agree you can't rely on the posted dates on Google Earth with certainty. When they first started using them, they were horribly inaccurate. But they seem to be improving. Especially in urban areas and for newer images.

Being on the edge of an image (which is often difficult to determine) can bring up an obviously erroneous date.

Another quirk with the program is that sometimes the first date that pops up is incorrect. But if you then toggle back and forth between different date images a few times, the dates shown become more believable.

Regardless, given that a hull with at least 23 hatches is shown in the graving dock, it is obviously a fairly recent photo.

Randy S wrote:I have Google Earth installed and if there is one thing that I have learned - do Not rely on the dates shown.

The dates given for the aforementioned Erie Shipyard photo would be valid.
The Atlantic Salvor and Farrell 256 are tied outside the un-flooded drydock in the Google image. It can be seen that blocks are being placed to accommodate them. October 8 both were moved into drydock.

I have Google Earth installed and if there is one thing that I have learned - do Not rely on the dates shown. Dad lives in northern Michigan and he paved his driveway in August of 2004. However the current GE image gives the date of 5.31.05 and the driveway in that image is not paved.

Randy S wrote:How do you know that the Google image was captured on Oct 7, 2011?

Google Earth (which you have to download and install on your computer) now shows the date of the image you are looking at. They also have older "historical" images available for most of the US. For instance, for the shipyard area in Erie, they have views from 9/4/87, 4/7/93, 4/1/05, 6/7/05, 5/28/08 and 10/7/11.

Google Earth and the web-based Google Maps are related, so they usually share the same current images, most of which are provided by state and federal governmental agencies.

on friday we set about a third of the boom structure in place, and yesterday we flooded the dry dock to let the Atlantic Salvor and crane barge Farrell out, and do repairs to the bottom of the flood gate.

if nothing has changed donjon marine and seacor are 50% owners

who is the owner of the new tug and barge?

How do you know that the Google image was captured on Oct 7, 2011?
TIA

Of note, this is the third time the barge name has changed. It was laid down as Erie Trader, changed to Seajon Enterprise and then changed again.

Four of the drydockings will be Grand River Navigation vessels.

Thanks, Shipbuilder, for giving us the name, Lakes Contender, to the Erie barge construction. The tug name, Ken Boothe Sr, has been known for a long time. Your post is new for the barge name. Our posted information for Lakes Contender is
Unmanned Self-Unloading Dry Cargo Barge
ABS Great Lakes Load Line
Donjon Shipbuilding and Repair Hull #115
LOA – 740’
Beam 78’
Depth 45’
Draft, Keel (DWL) 27’ 6”
Cargo 33,892 LT
Unload Rate 6000 tons-per--hour (most common cargos - iron ore (taconite pellets), coal, and stone)

Thanks Shipbuilder. Didn't know that it was that close to completion. After seeing your post, I looked at Google maps and found this October 7, 2011 overhead view.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=42.139752,-8 ... src=6&z=18

News reports are mentioning possibly 6 maintenance drydockings this winter at Donjon. With the new barge have to be floated out or are the drydockings smaller vessels like tugs?

Thanks.

Thanks shipbuilder! I saw the tug behind the Cason J. Callaway last winter when the Callaway was in layup. will be an impressive sight when all is said and done.

Rob W

I currently am working on the new ship in erie, and the tugs name is the Ken Boothe Sr, and the barge is the Lakes Contender. She is about 90 percent complete and should launch in early spring of 2012. A combined length of just around 900'

As for the chinese built ships for the great lakes, remember, you get what you pay for. The recent record of chinese built ships has been less then expected. Also remember that there are more US firms who could bid on a new US ore carrier then is evident. Good competition, good designs, good quality and a fair price will built a new Us ship.

since it is so expensive to build new ships in the US, lakes shipping companies tend to do enough maintainance on their current vessels that new builds are not necessary. It's easier to shell out a few million every couple of years than mortgage a vessel that cost $20 million, then if the market goes bad they won't loose the vessel because of defaulted payments.

All this is true, but the largest underlying factor is in regards to the Jones Act. Any US vessel that is to trade between two US ports (ie on the Great Lakes) must be built and crewed American. Therefore, you will not see any foreign built vessels on the Great Lakes flying the American flag period. Look for the current fleet to continue until it becomes economical to replace them with American built new builds.

This has been talked about time and time again. The prices for US built ships to replace the older hulls would be very high as compared to the chinese built ships. Most US carriers are still using whatever hulls are available. The Canadian Fleets have been scrapping boats for years. The only US boats that were active and ended up being scrapped in recent years were the Joeseph H Frantz, Calumet and now Maumee. In the end it is cheaper for the US Fleets to use the hulls that they have available and updating equipment as needed. Look at the Sherwin and CTC #1. These are examples of hulls that have been kept around just in case they will be needed. The time for economically building US ships is over. With the economic crisis, its even less likely. The only new build on the lakes has been the Tug/Barge being built in Erie PA, the name escapes me now.

Rob W

In answer to some of your questions, I don't think that there are any plans to replace any old U.S. ships with new ones. There are
also limitations with the Seaway Lock sizes as part of the reasons the U.S. cannot build overseas. The largest vessel that can fit into the Seaway Locks is 740 X 78 and you have to remember that most of the Canadian hulls going for scrap spend quite a bit of time on saltwater which wears down a hull in its lifetime as well.

Are there any plans to replace old U.S. ships with new ships? Several Canadian hulls are going to the breakers in favor of new Chinese boats. Why aren't the U.S. fleets doing the same? Is there a chance that new ships could be built here rather than overseas?