Boatnerd Discussion Forum

Thank you for those excellent answers, and for the information about canallers, which I was also curious about but didn't squeeze into my initial post.

Looking at the strapping added to the Thunder Bay, it appears the Whitefish Bay was not given the same strengthening, so her history in the gallery on this site appears to be incorrect in that regard.

Also of note, the Radcliffe R. Latimer is spending the Winter in Veracruz, Mexico at a Drydock getting a refit done to her. I don’t know yet the full details as far as what the actual refit is and work she’s having done to her? With the Latimer having that done to her this Winter, I wonder then if Algoma will have the Algoma Mariner in Veracruz like the Latimer at some point to get a refit done to her?

As far as I know, ships that were modified for Nova Scotia-class had additional scantlings installed so as to increase the section modulus of the hull. If a ship only operates on the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence river it can have a section modulus as low as 51%. A Nova Scotia-class laker has a section modulus of 80%. See this document for more information: https://publications.gc.ca/collections/ ... 14-eng.pdf

As for the Oakglen and Algoma Discovery they are essentially deep-sea ships, and not a true Nova Scotia-class or even Caribbean-class lakers.

Spruceglen due to it's age may have had enough wastage in her ballast tanks and nether regions that she can now only operate on the lakes - but that's a guess on my part.

Baie St. Paul and Thunder Bay were modified for Gulf of St. Lawrence and Nova Scotia trades, again by increasing the section modulus via hull strapping along the gunwale bar and above the "CANADA STEAMSHIP LINES" lettering on their hulls. You can really see it quite well in this photo of Thunder Bay from December 23, 2021. https://boatnerd.com/thunder-bay-3/#gid=1&pid=1

I can answer part of your question. Historically, Lake freighters being flat bottomed and having a higher length to beam ratio and hogging arches/ structure strengthening rendered most being unable to trade on the open seas. Some earlier designs like the "canallers" were able to trade world wide due to their lower ratio. During the last turn of the century many "classic" lake boats under 260ft in length did coastal work along both coasts of the United States and Canada. I believe several of our Whalebacks went to the West Coast also.

In WW1, the first U-Boat campaign was proving devastating on shipping so to supplement the fleet, some of the lakers were cut in half and re-joined at shipyards such as Halifax or Quebec. A lot of these ships disappeared without a trace. At first they were thought to have been victims of the U-Boats, but some survivors later recovered would tell of them breaking apart in moderate seas with the loss of most of the crew as lifeboats were very unweildy.

Not sure if anyone can help answer some questions I have. A typical laker is not allowed to navigate past the eastern tip of Anticosti Island in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, but several lakers are "Nova Scotia Class", allowing them to operate around eastern Canada visiting places like St. John's and Halifax. Some lakers in the past have also been "Caribbean Class", presumably allowing them to operate down the east coast of North America (and farther?). Lastly, some lakers are capable of deep sea trading anywhere in the world, as they were originally built for these trades (Oakglen, Algoma Discovery, etc.). I assume the differences between these classes have to do with structural strengthening for coastal and deep sea voyages, can anybody provide more details on what this entails and how different a ship of each class may be? A few years ago, the Baie St. Paul and Thunder Bay were upgraded from lakers to Nova Scotia class. What extra strengthening was added to them to accomplish this, and what regulatory body determines where the ship can operate? Transport Canada or Lloyds/ABS?

Another question I have relates to lakers that stopped trading on saltwater. For example, the Atlantic Huron spent much of its career on the Canadian east coast, but in the last five years it has essentially stopped these trades and stayed on the Great Lakes. Is it possible that it has somehow lost its Nova Scotia or Caribbean-class designation, perhaps due to lack or maintenance or upkeep? In another vein, for a few years CSL would send the Spruceglen on ocean trade routes during the winter, but eventually stopped doing this and it too has stayed on the lakes/St. Lawrence. Is she still capable of deep sea trading, or did CSL make changes to the vessel that cause it to be restricted to normal laker routes?