Boatnerd Discussion Forum

by **Jon Paul** » November 17, 2013, 9:06 pm

66u wrote:Wondering how did they account for the difference in the amount of cargo (many tons) at the receiving dock from the amount loaded.. Or do they even know?? If cargo is unloaded onto the ground, not weighed, how can they know how much they are getting??

At most ports we loaded at, when the load was completed a slip was presented or an amount was agreed upon as to how much cargo was loaded and the final draft marks, bow/midships/stern notated in the log and given to the dock. Those figures were forwarded by the company to the customer who would be taking delivery. A significant deviation from those figures would certainly cause an issue. A ton or so shoveled over the side or hosed overboard during washdown wouldn't cause a problem however.

by **tinstack** » November 17, 2013, 4:02 pm

When a cargo is delivered, the customer may request a cargo dead weight survey. To do the survey the draft of the ship is noted. From this the cubic amount of water displaced is figured and factored by the weight of same cubic amount of water. This is the total displacement of the ship and cargo. To calculate the cargo, the weight of the ship including fuel and effects is then subtracted from the total displacement. A ship jettisoning cargo would be an would be an extraordinary event and would likely result in litigation by one or more parties involved.

by **MilwBob** » November 17, 2013, 3:58 pm

Chief wrote:Wasn't there a law proposed or passed a few years ago about dumping excess cargo and material left on deck in to the lake. I believe that this was something that Minnesota or Wisconsin was involved in. I can just imagine the trail of excess cargo between Duluth and the Soo. I can see limiting the amount of material washed over the side for certain things while others such as grain should not be a problem. I seem to remember that taconite and cement were the two cargo's that seemed to be the most problem.

I believe you are right. I don't recall the particulars of the legislation but I believe it had a hand in preventing the Badger from shooting her ash into Lake Michigan.

by **Denny** » November 17, 2013, 2:53 pm

If anyone has or watches on video or DVD the story about the George A. Stinson Trip #9, it shows them after loading iron ore in Superior at the BNSF Dock. Anyway, after loading at BNSF #5 and departing it shows them stirring up lots of mud and they mention that it is caused from years of iron ore being loaded onto the boats. I know I am probably not making any sense with this and that somebody will have and give a better explanation I hope.

by **66u** » November 17, 2013, 2:01 pm

Wondering how did they account for the difference in the amount of cargo (many tons) at the receiving dock from the amount loaded... Or do they even know??? If cargo is unloaded onto the ground, not weighed, how can they know how much they are getting???

by **Chief** » November 17, 2013, 11:01 am

Wasn't there a law proposed or passed a few years ago about dumping excess cargo and material left on deck in to the lake. I believe that this was something that Minnesota or Wisconsin was involved in. I can just imagine the trail of excess cargo between Duluth and the Soo. I can see limiting the amount of material washed over the side for certain things while others such as grain should not be a problem. I seem to remember that taconite and cement were the two cargo's that seemed to be the most problem.

by **Lakercapt** » November 16, 2013, 4:02 pm

When we used to load quartz at Badgely Island for Midland there was always extra loaded.
On the way down Georgian Bay we swung the boom over and ran the extra cargo through the system.
As our previous cargo usually was clinker this was to clean out any residue as it contaminated the quartz.

by **Guest** » November 14, 2013, 6:39 pm

A few yrs ago, the CSL Assiniboine grounded near cardinal and after unsuccessful attempts to free her from the bottom, barges were brought alongside and cargo unloaded until the ship was able to float free.
This be a huge task for a straight decker!

by **Vince** » November 13, 2013, 12:34 pm

we did the same thing in Lake Erie on the Canadian Olympic ,over the boom went then we dumped some iron ore till are draft was correct for the Welland Canal.

by **Guest** » November 13, 2013, 12:26 pm

Guest wrote:While heading for the Welland Canal in 1974 on the Frontenac, we were overdraft, so the Captain ordered the boom to be swung over the side and we ran tons of iron ore from Valley Camp into Lake St. Clair. Needless to say, it was at night…….

That seems to be a waste when it could have been just as easily unloaded into another of the fleet's ships. Regardless, if this had occurred just two years earlier (prior to the Frontenac's self-unloading conversion during winter of 1972-73), such a dumping would not have been such an attractive (or realistic) option.

by **Guest** » November 13, 2013, 12:15 pm

Though not intentional dumping, I wonder how much coal, ore (and taconite), and stone is lying on the bottom of the lakes and rivers from being washed overboard while cleaning up the decks after loading and unloading.

by **Guest** » November 13, 2013, 10:58 am

While heading for the Welland Canal in 1974 on the Frontenac, we were overdraft, so the Captain ordered the boom to be swung over the side and we ran tons of iron ore from Valley Camp into Lake St. Clair. Needless to say, it was at night…….

by **Jared** » November 12, 2013, 6:19 pm

In the late 1800's the Schooner Arcturus dumped her cargo of two steam locomotives in the middle of Lake Huron. She sank a year later and we found her a few years ago in Saginaw Bay. I have not seen or heard of any "modern" carriers doing this. Although the wreck of the Cedarville has a trail of limestone leading to her about a mile long.

by **Guest** » November 12, 2013, 1:30 pm

Back in the 1950's we could watch trash of all types being dumped overboard from ships using the Saint Clair river. We could watch from our place on Russell Island as the garbage passed. One ship every 8 minutes passed back in those days.

by **Shawn** » November 12, 2013, 1:22 pm

RCRV wrote:Has it ever happened that a Great Lakes boat has had to dump ore or grain or coal or any bulk cargo overboard in an emergency to lighten the boat?

During the early days of shipping on the Great Lakes there are numerous stories of cargo being jetisoned and cattle being run overboard to lighten a load following a collision or during a fire, to give the boat the best chance of floating long enough to reach shore. There is at least one instance where the crew of a cross-lake train ferry attempted to jetison a few rail cars. The success rate was not good, but the intentions certainly were.

Of course those were during the days when most cargo was stowed on a deck that could be vacated directly out the side of the boat, rather than a hold for grain or ore as we are more familiar with. Eliminating a cargo stored below decks or in a hold would have been virtually impossible before the days of self-unloading gear.

by **Guest** » November 12, 2013, 11:10 am

H. M. Griffith had part of her coal cargo catch fire while on Lake Superior. She received permission to dump part of the cargo overboard by the USCG. In fact, this news item was the very first news posting on this website in 1996.

by **TWilush** » November 12, 2013, 10:29 am

Stadacona [3]:

On April 11, 1970 she suffered severe ice damage to her bow, punching three large holes below the waterline in Whitefish Bay, Lake Superior. She also suffered a hairline crack to the hull. The vessel was forced to shift her cargo from her forward hold to the after holds with the self-unloading equipment to keep from sinking.

Not quite dumping cargo, but close.

by Al » November 12, 2013, 10:19 am

I don't recall such an incident in recent decades, but in the 1940s and earlier it was fairly common for a lighter barge with a crane to lighten a grounded vessel by dumping enough cargo overboard to refloat the vessel.

by **hayhugh2** » November 12, 2013, 10:01 am

Have seen where cargo was transferred from grounded vessel to another vessel, but have not heard where cargo was intentionally dumped into river or even a lake.

by **Chief** » November 12, 2013, 9:20 am

Yes--To lighter during salvage of a grounded vessel.

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