Speer Unload

Discussion board focusing on Great Lakes Shipping Question & Answer. From beginner to expert all posts are welcome.
skip s

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by skip s »

Thanks to Russ and all others for this thread. The questions and answers provide a great learning experience. Hope none of you are retired so that all this brain power is keeps "producing". Great web site!
Charlie
Posts: 135
Joined: April 19, 2010, 10:32 pm

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Charlie »

Thanks for all the info and cross sections. Where can you get these from? or the line drawings for these boats? I liked the one posted on the Ben W Calvin. She was special because I was on her as a kid with my dad. Thanks for the help. Charlie
Russ

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Russ »

A couple of figures from Greenwood & Dill's Lake Boats to help clarify:
coal-bituminous = 42 cubic feet/net ton; coke-coal = 65 - 75 cubic feet /net ton; limestone = 23 cubic feet/net ton; sand = 18 cubic feet/net ton; iron or = 12 - 13 cubic feet/net ton; and iron ore pellets = 15 - 16 cubic feet/net ton. Based on these figures, one ton of coal will occupy approximately three times the volume of one ton of pellets.
bhale849

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by bhale849 »

"I saw a photo in a recent gallery of the Edgar B. Speer unloading at the mill.. .all hatch covers were closed as she unloaded. Is this common practice? I've noticed other self unloaders/footers with the hatch covers open as they unloaded...."

When I was on the James R. Barker, we always unloaded with the hatches open. We did it for a variety of reasons. One was so the AB in radio communication with the gatemen could tell them when the cargo to 1 set of gates was dwindling, and tell the gatemen to open the next set of gates to keep unloading at a steady pace without interruptions. Another was so the cargo could be "pushed" down to the gates. If the cargo wasn't sprayed down, some of it would remain hung up in the holds. Maybe niether of these facts are applicable to the Speer. However, most self-unloaders, not just the "footers", unload with their hatches open.
Guest

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Guest »

Makes complete sense. Where I was getting hung up at was the relative densities of coal and ore. I had no idea they were so different! Thanks again!
Guest

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Guest »

Here is a cross-section of the James R. Barker / Mesabi Miner. American Spirit is similar except for having two conveyor belts instead of three. Paul R. Tregurtha is nearly identical to the Belle River class in cross-section.

Ever wonder why American Century, Indiana Harbor, Walter J. McCarthy can carry 71,300 net tons of coal, while the American Integrity and Burns Harbor can only carry 71,000 net tons of coal? It's because the American Integrity and Burns Harbor's hatch coamings are only 12 inches high, whereas American Century, Indiana Harbor and Walter J. McCarthy's hatch coamings are 24 inches high.

Getting back to the Edgar B. Speer vs Belle River class comparison. The cargo hold for the Speer can only handle 50,200 net tons of coal versus the Belle River class which can carry 71,300 or 71,000 net tons of coal. The reason is because Speer has less cubic feet in her cargo hold as compared to the Belle River class. That is why even though there hull shapes are exactly the same, there cargo-hold configuration is different, hence one is more efficient than the other in carrying coal. Since the Speer and her sister the Edwin H. Gott were designed to operate in a captive market - that is to carry iron ore exclusively for there owner's steel mills, it wasn't necessary to design them for maximum efficiency in carrying coal.
Attachments
James_Barker.jpg
Guest

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Guest »

The Speer's does not have the cubic capacity, or room, to hold 73,000 tons of coal. Cargos have different density's. 1 ton of coal takes up much more space than 1 ton of ore. So the Speer "fully loaded" with coal may only have 30,000 tons (or whatever)on board.

It's like the old joke, which weighs more: 1 ton of feathers or 1 ton of bowling balls? Obviously, they weigh the same but you need a lot more feathers than bowling balls, and the feathers will take up a lot more space.
guessed

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by guessed »

Can anyone post a cross section of the boats similar to the Mesabi Miner? If you can, please do.
Guest

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Guest »

Fill up a bucket with coal, and lift it up. Then fill the same bucket with ore. I bet you cant lift that one up quite so easy.
Guest

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Guest »

Thanks for the information, it's always great to learn new things about these boats.

I guess where I'm confused is why the shape would matter? If the tonnage is the same between two boats, what difference does it make whether the cargo is say, coal or ore?
BigB
Posts: 31
Joined: May 7, 2010, 7:57 am

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by BigB »

Oops, still learning the new boards. Here is the mid-ship drawing for the edgar B. Speer
Attachments
Edgar_Speer.jpg
BigB
Posts: 31
Joined: May 7, 2010, 7:57 am

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by BigB »

The Edgar B. Speer has a smaller cargo hold with ballast tanks that are rectangular. The Belle River class has a larger cargo hold, with the slope extending out to the sides.
Attachments
Belle River class
Belle River class
Belle_river_class.jpg (16.17 KiB) Viewed 6872 times
Guest

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Guest »

[quote="Scott"]The Speer has a cargo capacity of 73,000 tons, comparible to other footers.[/quote]
reference was made to it's low cubic capacity. it doesn't have room in the holds for 73,000 tons of coal. Some boats like the McCarthy were built to haul coal and have a high cube capacity. Other boats like the Speer do not.
Scott

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Scott »

The Speer has a cargo capacity of 73,000 tons, comparible to other footers.
STomlinson

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by STomlinson »

The Speer usually loads in Two Harbors, MN. The dock there has its shuttles on 48' centers, Just like the hatches on the Speer, Gott and Cort. A typical boat has them on 24' centers. This would cause the boat to have to shift 24' for the 2nd run. The the case of the Speer they just tie up and a rig end up over each hatch. The Speer is limited to carrying ore as her low cubic capacity wouldn't make for much of a coal load. Of the existing ore docks she could load at any of the modern ones (i.e. no gravity chutes)
Scott

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Scott »

Along those lines, where does the Speer usualy load? Does the small number of hatches affect where they can take on Cargo?
MichaelB

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by MichaelB »

Excellent information in this thread. Thanks to all who have posted what they have so far. While many often remark on the unique unloading system and how it might be limiting as far as ports it can frequent, I have always found the small hatch size on the Speer to be of interest. It seems to me that this would also limit the Speer to certain docks. Is this assumption true in any measure?
charlie - soo

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by charlie - soo »

That would be an unloading hopper, with a conveyor belt under it. If you look closely, you can see the belt and or rollers. The belt then takes the material to a storage area somewhere on the dock, or closer to the furnace it serves.
Guest

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by Guest »

Where is the ore being stored? It appears that it is going into a silo rather than a pile on the dock .
STomlinson

Re: Speer Unload

Unread post by STomlinson »

[quote="Scott"]I saw a photo in a recent gallery of the Edgar B. Speer unloading at the mill. However, all hatch covers were closed as she unloaded. Is this common practice? I've noticed other self unloaders/footers with the hatch covers open as they unloaded...just curious.[/quote]

Its standard for the Speer, not so much for other vessels. When I worked on there that was the way we always did it. This was because we always carried the same thing, never had to rinse the holds. Personally i'd want a few hatches in each hold open just so I could see what the cargo was doing, but it wasn't a concern there.
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