Edmund Fitzgerald, broken keel?

[Guest]

I came across this video from IntoWisOutdoors a year ago or so. I was captivated by the story Tugboat Jim told, being in such a circle of common sailors. Whether this video answers questions, raises new ones or just gets passed over as hearsay, it's absolutely great information. The question about the Fitzgerald's keel arises around 6:30.00 and the interview is over by the 11:30.00 mark.

http://youtu.be/cnoZlZU2Mqs

That's interesting but Bethlehem put a ton of money into lengthening the Homer and the lack of a boom killed her. I worked with guys who sailed on the A.B. Homer and Fitz they never mentioned a "loose keel". If their was a class wide issue or a manufacturing issue it seems the Herbert C. Jackson and AAA's would have the same issues seeing the Jackson was built right after, and the Fitz was essentially an expanded version of the GLEW AAA's. Abuse and ware and tear could have caused issues but I don't think it was a manufacturing or class wide issue.

[Guest]

I came across this video from IntoWisOutdoors a year ago or so. I was captivated by the story Tugboat Jim told, being in such a circle of common sailors. Whether this video answers questions, raises new ones or just gets passed over as hearsay, it's absolutely great information. The question about the Fitzgerald's keel arises around 6:30.00 and the interview is over by the 11:30.00 mark.

http://youtu.be/cnoZlZU2Mqs

I was surprised by the reference to the Fitzgerald's purported visit to Bay Shipbuilding just before sinking. Have never heard of this before. It seems unlikely this would have been unnoticed. Does anyone know if this was ever reported in any of the maritime journals of the day?

[Pazzo]

I came across this video from IntoWisOutdoors a year ago or so. I was captivated by the story Tugboat Jim told, being in such a circle of common sailors. Whether this video answers questions, raises new ones or just gets passed over as hearsay, it's absolutely great information. The question about the Fitzgerald's keel arises around 6:30.00 and the interview is over by the 11:30.00 mark.

http://youtu.be/cnoZlZU2Mqs

[Duluth Guest]

Here is the video I mentioned below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgSL5bNQ56g

[Guest]

Speaking of spare propeller blade stowage, I remember the Armco sailing for at least a couple of years during the 1970s sailing with two blades stowed vertically in front of the forward cabins with one on each side of the mast. Does anyone have any idea why this was done?

[Duluth Guest]

This is taxing my memory a bit but I recall a number of sources referring to the loose keel on the Fitzgerald. I seem to also recall a quote, referenced in a book that I read, from a mate stating that "she's got that wiggle again cap" during a previous trip in 1975. Furthermore, the Fitz did have a vibration reported shortly before her sinking and following a brief grounding in October of 1975. We discussed this on another thread awhile back and it developed into a great discussion about spare prop blade storage. More specifically, how a spare blade, possibly loosened from it's strapping on deck to expedite an anticipated replacement at the dock, may have come loose and done severe topside damage to the spar deck, hatch comings, railings and tank vents.

Fast forward the video below to 1:00.00 and you'll the prop blades stored on deck.

From Wikipedia:

"George H. "Red" Burgner, Fitzgerald's steward for ten seasons and winter ship-keeper for seven years, testified in a deposition that a "loose keel" contributed to the vessel's loss. Burgner further testified that "the keel and sister kelsons were only 'tack welded" and that he had personally observed that many of the welds were broken."

"The stress fracture theory was supported by the testimony of former crewmen. Former Second Mate Richard Orgel, who served on Fitzgerald in 1972 and 1973, testified that "the ship had a tendency to bend and spring during storms 'like a diving board after somebody has jumped off.'"[125] Orgel was quoted as saying that the loss of Fitzgerald was caused by hull failure, "pure and simple. I detected undue stress in the side tunnels by examining the white enamel paint, which will crack and splinter when submitted to severe stress."

This is all just speculation though and the mystery surrounding this wreck will most likely continue forever.

[Guest]

I just saw this on the Friends of Know your Ships Facebook page. I'm sorry it this has been covered here but it's the first time I've heard any rumor of this keel problem. Here is what was posted:

I used to have a chat forum on my old phone that crashed and i lost it . On this forum there was a discussion that went suposedly the keel had split on the EF and they kept driving wedges in as temp repairs untill after that last voyage untill lay up and repairs would be made. The steel is to this day still setting in a steel yard tagged as "EF". It was deferred maint that got her. She had been long abused . (If so it must of been REALLY white washed by the bord of inquiry. Just imagine if that WAS the case the law suits )

The only time i ever heard of wedges being driving into steel as a repair was if there was a hole or a crack in a ballast tank. After unloading you'd check to see if there were leaks in the side tanks from the unloading buckets hitting them. If there was used drive a wedge in it to stop it. I never saw the post but could it have been about repairing the side tanks?

[Guest]

I believe a lot of the broken/loose keel rumors originated from statements made by a cook that sailed on the Fitzgerald that was not aboard when the ship sank. If I recall correctly he was prominently featured on Fred Shannon's Fitzgerald documentary back in the early 1990s. I no longer have the tape as I sold it soon after ebay first came into being.

[canaljim]

I just saw this on the Friends of Know your Ships Facebook page. I'm sorry it this has been covered here but it's the first time I've heard any rumor of this keel problem. Here is what was posted:

I used to have a chat forum on my old phone that crashed and i lost it . On this forum there was a discussion that went suposedly the keel had split on the EF and they kept driving wedges in as temp repairs untill after that last voyage untill lay up and repairs would be made. The steel is to this day still setting in a steel yard tagged as "EF". It was deferred maint that got her. She had been long abused . (If so it must of been REALLY white washed by the bord of inquiry. Just imagine if that WAS the case the law suits )