reduced posting

[Guest]

Other media alternatives are the main competition for this board. You tube videos, Tik Tok posts by active mariners etc. young people want in time live interaction. Add on that few people know about this site nor know about or care about Great Lakes shipping. I doubt any “ cancer” as you describe is responsible for the slow demise of this message board. It’s simply following the slow steady demise of the industry. Not sure what examples you have of “ professional mariners “ being a problem but please share if you will. I for one have not noticed it in 15 years of activity on this board. I’ve been glad to share my career experience here and inform and educate those who were interested and asked pertinent questions. However, I have experienced the opposite several times with non sailors speaking authoritivly on issues they were not informed enough on to voice such a strong opinion. Several of my fellow career sailors left the site for that reason, including a well seasoned captain of mine who finally found it bothersome and offensive at times. A few current sailors post these days with good info and that’s well appreciated. Laker cap was a joy to read as have been many others. However when quests for info that crossed lines to invade our private info or lives or made negative comments about shipping company decisions or of executives as though the posters knew better that’s inappropriate. If a knowledgeable sailor or company employee posts something accurate, ok great. But too many inaccurate posts and criticisms crept in over the years from people not in the know. I’ve had my final say now I’m going to continue to enjoy my well earned retirement. Good luck to all here and wish you to enjoy what’s left of good boat nerds posting here.

[Guest]

Good point! I for one quit posting as people with little knowledge of Great Lakes shipping would negate or talk down to us who were actually sailors. They “ knew” or “ know all as experts.

On the contrary, I've seen exactly the opposite happen in here too (professionals acting unprofessionally - to put it nicely) and that's likely played a big role in driving people away.

That kind of stuff is cancer to a place like this and that combined with the sad decline of this hobby, means the damage is now likely irreversible.

[Guest]

Good point! I for one quit posting as people with little knowledge of Great Lakes shipping would negate or talk down to us who were actually sailors. They “ knew” or “ know all as experts.it’s the old addage of a few bad apples spoil the crop. Moderators here do a good job. I know it’s not easy. I sometimes read the site but as far as sharing my knowledge that stopped long time ago. You are correct about less followers but it’s always been small part of the population. Do you know how many people living in the Great Lakes region have NO idea of the ships on our waters? Not a clue!! Even in the Detroit area ! Or Toledo Cleveland etc.sad

[Guest]

I believe another major difference between this board and social media alternatives, is that the vast majority of posts made to this forum seem to be a lot more informative than ones I have heard about posted on sites like Facebook. I say the ones I have heard about because I will not use any of those social media sites. I have many acquaintances that use social media so I do get asked from time to time about certain comments they have seen on these platforms in relation to Great Lakes shipping. A recent example of the type of misinformation that can be found on these forums took place on the night the Cuyahoga suffered an engine room fire in Lake Erie. I don't know what group it was posted to but one apparent observer of the event posted that he could see the Cuyahoga burning from "stem to stern" out on the lake. This started a line of posts about how the ship was about to sink and that it was definitely a total loss, with one post claiming that the glow of the fire was visible 40 miles away. I heard later that when it became clear that this was not the case a short while later, these posts were removed. However, this just seems to be a good example of the dangers of misinformation that can appear on these social media sites. This is especially true for groups in which moderators do not maintain tight control of the posts.

In contrast, since its earliest beginnings, this forum has benefited from mostly informative posts by knowledgeable people interested in this hobby. Unfortunately, as time has gone on a good portion of this knowledge base has been lost to old age. As fewer and fewer people either work in the industry or are interested in Great Lakes shipping, this trend is likely to continue in the future.

[Guest]

It's upsetting, I've been boycotting facebook for years, so I kind of get left out of the loop.

Same here Never used it and never will

[guest]

It's upsetting, I've been boycotting facebook for years, so I kind of get left out of the loop.

[Guest]

I'm amazed that the Henry Stienbrenner wreck was found along with wreck video posted and there were no responses. 17 sailors lost there lives and unless it's speculation about the Fitz or Morrell sinking no one seems to care. Very sad

[Guest]

Or could it be that nobody liked the new boards and that forced the group to look for free software like phpBB and then to transfer what they could. People hate change, but when they suddenly lose info they deem important to them and it is not there, complain. If it were me, would shut these boards down and use only the new ones. Yes you will lose people, but you will also gain people who like the format.

[Guest]

In regards to the former Boatnerd user-submitted photo gallery (pics.boatnerd.com) there certainly were efforts to save it; some successful but many not. Boatnerd, which has always had limited funds and volunteers, relied on publicly-available freeware to run those galleries. Over time the programmers of that freeware package decided to terminate any further development of the gallery software. There were no good options for exporting existing galleries from that software package to any other affordable package. And after updates ended, the site became more and more glitchy as time marched on. Eventually, posting, moving and sorting photos became impossible, and in time all access became difficult, if not impossible.

Many of the photos that were in these galleries were preserved digitally off line. But two things have stalled them from being put back on line on the new site.

First is the size and quality of the photos; most date back to "ancient" times internet-wise and don't display well on web sites that meet today's graphic standards.

Second is the fact that Boatnerd still has a limited pool of volunteers, so we have to prioritize what projects and updates are worked on. In past user polls, there was little to no support shown for bringing back online those low-quality user-submitted photos from 10 or 15 years ago.

As an aside, I personally spent hundreds of hours over several years sorting and organizing a Boatnerd "historical gallery" (sorted by vessel type and fleet) using that freeware. It never went public, because by the time it was ready to debut, the software was no longer being updated. It was a hard lesson that websites are in peril if they don't keep their software (and security protocols) up to date.

Firstly, thank you for your efforts and explanation.

I get it that the software was crusty and needing replacement and even that not everything in there was worth keeping - particularly with regards to photos of ships that still exist. My main concern was the historical stuff for ships long gone.

There were some pretty neat (and hard to find) interior photos of engine rooms and crew spaces. I hope that those can find their way into the new galleries - if they still exist. :)

Unfortunately, it seems, at least from what I have seen, younger generations do not have much interest in the historical aspect of Great Lakes shipping. I'm not saying that nobody from these age groups cares about history, it just seems like there is a lot less interest in it. Please believe me, I'm not trying to insult any individual or any group, this is just my personal observation of following shipping since the 1970s.

The ease and familiarity of posting information and photographs on social media have obviously reduced traffic to these boards, and likely to this website in general. That is likely to continue in the future. The main problem I have seen with social media sites is that the appears to be little retention of information over the long term. So within a relatively short period of time, any material submitted to those websites appears to be lost, forever I would assume.

I have been a regular visitor to this website since it began with Neil Schultheiss (please forgive me if I spelled his last name incorrectly) in the mid-1990s. It seemed to grow very quickly and became very active within a short period of time. I would say it reached its high point in the early 2000s. But as some visitors and posters passed away, or possibly became uninterested, the number of posts declined. The increasing popularity of social media platforms during this period appears to have also played a large role in the decline of reduced postings to this chat board.

All while this has been going on, it also appears that there has been a steady loss of interest in this hobby. I know some will point out that certain social media accounts associated with Great Lakes shipping have followers numbering in the several thousands as proof as to the strong level of current interest. I will argue, however, is that when it comes to the current figures there is no way to adquately compare to the number, or even percentage, of the general public that had an interest in this hobby more than 20 years ago.

It is further liekly, that the interest in this hobby will decline in somewhat general proportion to the continuing decrease in the number of active ships on the Great Lakes.

As a nearly 30-year visitor to this website, I would like to thank all of the volunteers involved in making this website work both in the past and the present.

[Dickb]

I look at BoatNerd every day. Thank You to all the volunteers for your great work!!

[Guest]

In regards to the former Boatnerd user-submitted photo gallery (pics.boatnerd.com) there certainly were efforts to save it; some successful but many not. Boatnerd, which has always had limited funds and volunteers, relied on publicly-available freeware to run those galleries. Over time the programmers of that freeware package decided to terminate any further development of the gallery software. There were no good options for exporting existing galleries from that software package to any other affordable package. And after updates ended, the site became more and more glitchy as time marched on. Eventually, posting, moving and sorting photos became impossible, and in time all access became difficult, if not impossible.

Many of the photos that were in these galleries were preserved digitally off line. But two things have stalled them from being put back on line on the new site.

First is the size and quality of the photos; most date back to "ancient" times internet-wise and don't display well on web sites that meet today's graphic standards.

Second is the fact that Boatnerd still has a limited pool of volunteers, so we have to prioritize what projects and updates are worked on. In past user polls, there was little to no support shown for bringing back online those low-quality user-submitted photos from 10 or 15 years ago.

As an aside, I personally spent hundreds of hours over several years sorting and organizing a Boatnerd "historical gallery" (sorted by vessel type and fleet) using that freeware. It never went public, because by the time it was ready to debut, the software was no longer being updated. It was a hard lesson that websites are in peril if they don't keep their software (and security protocols) up to date.

Firstly, thank you for your efforts and explanation.

I get it that the software was crusty and needing replacement and even that not everything in there was worth keeping - particularly with regards to photos of ships that still exist. My main concern was the historical stuff for ships long gone.

There were some pretty neat (and hard to find) interior photos of engine rooms and crew spaces. I hope that those can find their way into the new galleries - if they still exist. :)

[Mr Link]

It doesn't help this place that there was a bunch of stuff on the old boatnerd site (pics.boatnerd.com) that was apparently tossed without any effort to save it - there were some good and rare shots in there. No, the internet archive did not pick up most of it either.

In regards to the former Boatnerd user-submitted photo gallery (pics.boatnerd.com) there certainly were efforts to save it; some successful but many not. Boatnerd, which has always had limited funds and volunteers, relied on publicly-available freeware to run those galleries. Over time the programmers of that freeware package decided to terminate any further development of the gallery software. There were no good options for exporting existing galleries from that software package to any other affordable package. And after updates ended, the site became more and more glitchy as time marched on. Eventually, posting, moving and sorting photos became impossible, and in time all access became difficult, if not impossible.

Many of the photos that were in these galleries were preserved digitally off line. But two things have stalled them from being put back on line on the new site.

First is the size and quality of the photos; most date back to "ancient" times internet-wise and don't display well on web sites that meet today's graphic standards.

Second is the fact that Boatnerd still has a limited pool of volunteers, so we have to prioritize what projects and updates are worked on. In past user polls, there was little to no support shown for bringing back online those low-quality user-submitted photos from 10 or 15 years ago.

[GreatLaker]

A great deal of effort was put into saving what was on the old site, There were thousands of photos there. The volunteers have done a excellent job, in my humble opinion.

[Guest]

Social media is a big part of it. There are quite a few boatnerd/shipwatching groups on Facebook where a lot of the discussion and interaction has moved to.

It is unfortunate. Due to both Facebook and the group operators, these groups (typically) aren't publicly visible without a Facebook account - blech . Stuff that used to show up with simple internet searches just doesn't anymore.

It doesn't help this place that there was a bunch of stuff on the old boatnerd site (pics.boatnerd.com) that was apparently tossed without any effort to save it - there were some good and rare shots in there. No, the internet archive did not pick up most of it either.

[Jason]

Social media is a big part of it. There are quite a few boatnerd/shipwatching groups on Facebook where a lot of the discussion and interaction has moved to.

[guest]

It seems to me like there are less posts than usual, not sure what the cause might be. For example my boat broke down in the Mac lock for 2 hours a couple days ago and not one single person mentioned it in the posts. This seems strange to me, usually boatnerds would be all over that sort of thing.