Mv cuyahoga

[badger]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a protection and indemnity club? You wont know if you don't ask questions!

[Guest]

No...but how many fires can you have before the insurance company days enough is enough. Can you fave an accident in your car once a week?

Okay, that is an interesting thought. Often times shipping companies can have multiple groundings in a season or even an unexpected event such as a structural failure of the unloading boom (as occurred to the Saginaw over a decade ago) and of course fires.

Insurance for shipping is not the same as an automobile. If you have multiple accidents in a year, then your insurance (in Canada, as an example), can decide not to renew your insurance when it comes up for renewal, in which case you have to find insurance coverage for risky drivers, and at much higher premiums and deductibles.

In the marine insurance industry, it's a lot more complicated. In regards to Great River Navigation and Lower Lakes Towing, the insurer will look at their overall risk. A lot of owners are in a Protection and Indemnity Club (P&I).

[Denny]

Also don’t forget too, the Cuyahoga was built in 1943 and is one of the oldest ships to sail on the Great Lakes and the oldest Canadian ship to sail the lakes. She’s had two fires in about a years time give or take and an 80 year old ship doesn’t last forever! Yes I do know that we’ve had a few ships reach 100 years old but, even those a few then get scrapped and are finished at some point in their careers and lifetime. Look at the E.M. Ford and J.B. Ford both made it to 100 give or take but, eventually both were scrapped. The St. Mary’s Challenger made it to 100 I think but, she was turned into a barge. I guess what I am trying to point out is some ships do not last forever no matter how much money and investments a company puts into it. Even cars don’t last forever and need to be replaced at some point. Just my opinions and two cents on this subject and topic is all.

[Guest]

No...but how many fires can you have before the insurance company days enough is enough. Can you fave an accident in your car once a week?

They were an engine room fire on her recently overhauled Caterpillar 3608 from 2000 and a fire caused by welders in the shipyard doing work on her. Both are situations that any fleet has to deal with here and there. Nothing here to indicate any negligence on Lower Lake's part nor is it anything to do with the ship's age.

[guest]

No...but how many fires can you have before the insurance company days enough is enough. Can you fave an accident in your car once a week?

[Guest]

Perhaps rand doesn't have the money to repair it. Remember they had a fire last year. Insurance companies aren't exactly stupid!

What are you trying to imply with that last sentence, that the fires were deliberately set?

[guest]

Perhaps rand doesn't have the money to repair it. Remember they had a fire last year. Insurance companies aren't exactly stupid!

[Guest]

If there were updates, I'm sure they'd be posted

[Denny]

Just curious and wondering if anyone has seen or heard of any new updates or news and status on the Cuyahoga from her fire just about at fit out time this Winter or Spring then? Haven’t seen, read or heard much on her status lately. Assuming Lower Lakes and Rand are each deciding on her future yet and if she can be saved and repaired. I agree with some of the other posters here, indeed it’s been a rough and difficult start so far for Rand and their ships this season! Wonder when the American Mariner will be repaired, fixed and back in service again?

[Guest]

There is much more EBITDA cash earnings per vessel on the US side compared to the Canadian side, primarily due to USD contracts (vs. CAD) and vessel supply (current and future due to US average age of fleet).

[Denny]

I too would like to add to Badger’s questions, “Any updates or information on her from her fire at Fit Out in Ashtabula?” So far, all of Lower Lakes Towing’s vessels are out sailing for the 2024 season. Hate to say but, IF the Cuyahoga’s career is finished from that fire then could and would Lower Lakes Towing maybe look into a replacement vessel? I don’t know what a good replacement vessel would be or who it would be then? However, would they consider taking one of the GRN ships and then reflagging it Canadian and possibly then renaming it? Yes I know, a lot of speculations and questions. The saying goes, Never say never as far as it never happening as you just never know about these things. Just my two cents, thoughts and opinions only is all on this is all.

[badger]

Any update about the fire on the cuyahoga at fitout? 2024 so far isn't a very good year for rand!