Lower Lakes being sold?

[Guest]

Surprised to hear that the Kaministiqua just passed her survey. I was obviously way off the mark writing her off. I've not had the opportunity to ever be aboard her, but she's apparently a survivor that isn't ready to call it a career just yet. Given her long career, her ownership and their policy of doing just the bare minimum, and virtually all of her contemporaries having gone to the breakers yard, I made the age old mistake to assume.

[Guest]

Hard to take bets made by anonymous posters. 😂

[algowest]

This response is concerning Michipicoten, I assume. Hard to follow some responses when multiple ships are being mentioned.

Bet you a steak dinner she never sails again. It’s ripe rotten and no steady cargo for her. Try getting a competent crew for her😂.

[Guest]

Bet you a steak dinner she never sails again. It’s ripe rotten and no steady cargo for her. Try getting a competent crew for her😂.

[Guest]

The Kaministiqua just came out of drydock at Erie where she got her five year and sailed to Sarnia. So she should presumably have 5 or 6 years left at least.

[Guest]

She passed her last survey and isn't a wreck internally. The forced early survey after this incident was mandated out of caution to make sure that not only has the direct structural damage been fully repaired like the shipyard is confident has been, but also to ensure that it wasn't a symptom of a major hidden problem. She came close to sinking and had a few things been a little different, there could've easily been causalities.

Her modern engine room from back when Lower Lakes actually was investing into the future of their fleet rather than just buying band-aids, her fresh water career, her 1950's era construction (versus the lightweight high tensile steel builds of the 70's), and lack of salt hauls leaves her not at a dead end in her career. I think she'll survive the incompetence of Lower Lakes management in recent years that has killed what once was a positive asset for Great Lakes shipping thanks to forcing out their competent early leadership that had quickly made Lower Lakes a force to be reckoned with.

Some are no doubt goners of course. The Kaministiqua is an obvious example. She's years past the retirement of most of her contemporaries on the Canadian side of the Lakes (and one of her two sisters has been gone a decade now), hasn't had the TLC that CSL has given the Spruceglen, has seen a lot of salt water time and trips through locks, etc. Hard to imagine Algoma or CSL being interested given her age and years of deferred maintenance at Lower Lakes. CSL would be better off investing in their well cared for Spruceglen to extend her career rather than throwing money at reversing years of Lower Lakes lack of care for the Kaministiqua to get her in shape for maybe 5-6 more years.

Kaministiqua literally just passed a five year survey two weeks ago.

[Guest]

She passed her last survey and isn't a wreck internally. The forced early survey after this incident was mandated out of caution to make sure that not only has the direct structural damage been fully repaired like the shipyard is confident has been, but also to ensure that it wasn't a symptom of a major hidden problem. She came close to sinking and had a few things been a little different, there could've easily been causalities.

Her modern engine room from back when Lower Lakes actually was investing into the future of their fleet rather than just buying band-aids, her fresh water career, her 1950's era construction (versus the lightweight high tensile steel builds of the 70's), and lack of salt hauls leaves her not at a dead end in her career. I think she'll survive the incompetence of Lower Lakes management in recent years that has killed what once was a positive asset for Great Lakes shipping thanks to forcing out their competent early leadership that had quickly made Lower Lakes a force to be reckoned with.

Some are no doubt goners of course. The Kaministiqua is an obvious example. She's years past the retirement of most of her contemporaries on the Canadian side of the Lakes (and one of her two sisters has been gone a decade now), hasn't had the TLC that CSL has given the Spruceglen, has seen a lot of salt water time and trips through locks, etc. Hard to imagine Algoma or CSL being interested given her age and years of deferred maintenance at Lower Lakes. CSL would be better off investing in their well cared for Spruceglen to extend her career rather than throwing money at reversing years of Lower Lakes lack of care for the Kaministiqua to get her in shape for maybe 5-6 more years.

[Guest]

They demanded a full inspection due to dozens of easily viewed deficiencies while doing a minor interior walk thru after the hull was welded. Tank tops are bad, many structural components in the tunnel are bad, several cracks along 2 side tanks. It’s done… and it should be. Would you sail on it? Doubt they could even get a competent crew together. Perhaps you are correct the company didn’t want to pay for the inspection because they’re not willing to pay the $ cost to bring the ship up to safe sailing condition without a steady cargo run. The whole co is on its last legs.

[Guest]

Believe it or not they have hardly carried salt under LLT ownership. I don’t think the Michipicoten has at all, while the Saginaw has only done so on occasion and not at all in the last few years. The Cuyahoga and Mississagi generally handled all the salt cargoes.

[Guest]

The Michipicoten is not sitting at the wall because of the company not paying for an inspection. It failed its inspection after the hull was repaired. It’s old rotten and needs millions $ work. That ship has had serious hull fractures 3 times in its life. Twice when it was in the interlake fleet from launching until being sold Canadian. Her main cargo run disappeared and there’s not enough demand to properly repair it. Soon will have a trip to the scrappers

Michipicoten was fully repaired but the regulatory body mandated it go through a full 5 year inspection despite time left on her survey. Lower Lakes didn't want to pay for it.

[Guest]

Have they carried salt? And being re-powered in 2008 doesn't exactly make them state of the art. Unless technology hasn't improved in 18 years.

[Guest]

The Michipicoten is not sitting at the wall because of the company not paying for an inspection. It failed its inspection after the hull was repaired. It’s old rotten and needs millions $ work. That ship has had serious hull fractures 3 times in its life. Twice when it was in the interlake fleet from launching until being sold Canadian. Her main cargo run disappeared and there’s not enough demand to properly repair it. Soon will have a trip to the scrappers

[Guest]

I really doubt that the Michipicoten and Saginaw are done. State of the art engine rooms and most of their life has been spent in fresh water. Lower Lakes being too cheap to pay for a mandated inspection is the sole reason why the former is at the wall after being fully repaired.

These ships will most likely be forced out of service by the further reduction in the demand for cargo movements, the switch by Algoma Steel to EAF being a primary factor for Lower Lakes. Both ships are now well into the 70 year timespan of their careers and despite the various modernization programs they have received it will nonetheless become increasingly costly to maintain them in operating condition.

[Guest]

I really doubt that the Michipicoten and Saginaw are done. State of the art engine rooms and most of their life has been spent in fresh water. Lower Lakes being too cheap to pay for a mandated inspection is the sole reason why the former is at the wall after being fully repaired.

[Guest]

Are they buying two vessels each? Assuming that would be Kaministiqua and Manitoulin since they are being drydocked this winter.

Makes sense - they look like they are in the best shape and pretty young as Lakers go.

[Guest]

The banks and private capital lenders might be a little hesitant to lend money. Why reactivate a long term laid up ships when you can buy a new ship from China? You'll need years to pay that work off and you could always sell a new built bulker off the Great Lakes far easier than a 70 year old one.

[Guest]

Well there goes any hope for the return of the Valor.

Until an official announcement is made, don’t be so sure. McKeil has had interest in an AAA in the past.

[Guest]

Where does it say they are going out of business?

They are restructuring, and from what I can see the downsizing is impacting their Canadian fleet, and not the American fleet. So, I don't understand where US mariners become involved, when its Canadian sailors that are being impacted. Or can sailors from the US or Canada work in the other's country's shipping industry?

[Guest]

In response to GreatLaker, while I have no idea if this rumor is true or not, it is referring only to the six ships in the Lower Lakes Towing fleet. I don't think it has anything to do with the U.S.-flag companies owned by Mainstay Maritime (Andrie, ASC, and Grand River).

[Jared]

Well there goes any hope for the return of the Valor.