Armco

[Ray]

The last great yr for boat watching was 1981, after that things changed considerably on both sides of the lake.

I'd say a little further back than that. I've always thought 1976 was the last truly great year, at least at Duluth. The ore miners strike in 1977 made for a slow season that year, By 1978 quite a few older ships were layed up never to sail again with more 1000 footers coming on line. And the grain miller's strike of 1979 made that a lame year as well, though the 30+ salties at anchor was impressive.

[Jerry at Duluth]

I read all of the comments about how old and worn out these ships are. The machinery, if properly laid up should be as good as when it was laid up. Piping seems to degrade to most and that is something that can be replaced. The big thing is the hull. The Armco has an enormous value just in its hull. If you add the unloading equipment, the value multiplies. The cost of building a new vessel of that size is over one hundred million dollars. Even if you had to do a lot of steel work on the hull, it is still a good venture to buy a vessel like that. Look at how long Interlake has hold on to the Sherwin. It costs a lot of money every hear, to keep a ship in layup. They know the value of the bull and you will see that boat sail again when the cargo is there. Same for the Ryerson. American S. S. conditioned the sale of the steamers to scrap solely to prevent another fleet from competing with them. If they were not conditioned to scrap, they probably would have received a substantially higher price.

[Guest]

The last great yr for boat watching was 1981, after that things changed considerably on both sides of the lake.

[Guest]

The old days on the lakes are gone. Just enjoy what is left.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth in that statement. On the other hand, perhaps not as "the old days" is a matter of perspective. Being too young to have a good recollection of the shipping scene prior to the early 1980s, I always felt unfortunate to have missed the immediate postwar era through the 1970s. However, I saw a comment posted to social media the other day concerning a picture of one of the P & H steamers from the 1980s in which a young poster referred to the 80s as a great time for boat watching in comparison to today. Looking back at it now, maybe it was better than I thought at the time. Perhaps, 40 years from now, a young boatnerd (if such a genre still exists) will look back at today with the same impression.

[Guest]

I am always amazed when I read such “ experts” here that seem to know all the decisions or non decisisions made or not made by the bean counters. Were you privy to the transactions that led to the purchase by
Algoma? Both of those steamers were headed for scrap no matter who owned them. They are outdated, old, inefficient for today’s markets. Shipping companies are in business to make money, not satisfy the whims of boatnerds. The old days on the lakes are gone. Just enjoy what is left.

[Guest]

Unfortunately Algoma never ever considered running the two steamers they were just forced to take them Im sure the minute they new that they were finding out how much they'd get for scrap!

[Guest]

All these companies and their bean counters are concerned about is ROI, Return on Investment. How long will it take before a vessel to return to profitability after investing millions to get it running again. Is the economy right and is there sustainable hauling contracts in place to justify the expense? If those issues aren't ascertainable it will never happen. Or I should say, should never happen.

[Guest]

I recently heard that the Algorail and Algoway may have been resold for scrapping overseas.

[Guest]

I have no idea where they are going to put her at IMS. There's a huge backlog of boats. The Townsend, Algorail, Algoway, English River, and a ferry or two have to be dismantled still.

[Shipwatcher1]

I worked for a short line railroad & we were constantly forced to deal with old, out of date equipment that should have been in the scrap heap. We had non stop problems trying to keep that stuff running & it wasn’t for lack of maintenance. The locos & other equipment were shop queens & kept out of the weather & generally babied but they just ate up labor hours & money for repairs. New parts were always hard, if not impossible, to find & used items were as worn out as the ones we already had. Part costs were thru the roof because all their systems were made 50-60 years ago & the original manufacturers for that stuff were long since OOB. A lot of those machines were loaded with asbestos, they leaked oil & coolant everywhere, they were noisy, they vibrated, & just had zero creature comfort or ergonomics. They ate you up & spit you out by the end of the day & were a big factor in why I left a near 10 year career there. I’d assume an old boat has a lot of similarities with things like that. Just because something old CAN be restored to running condition doesn’t necessarily mean it SHOULD be.

Keep in mind that if Algoma DID do something with the Valor, it would be repowered first. There is no way that they would try and reactivate that old turbine engine room. Much of the stuff you mentioned would be dealt with in that scenario I'd imagine.

[deckstir]

I talked to a tug Captain this summer that claims he took a barge the size of Armco out the seaway and says it's possible she could go overseas. I'm guessing it's kind of like when under special circumstances the COE can put the triple A boats (Anderson, Callaway, Clarke) through the Mac lock.
Who knows what will happen to her. We won't know until they weld a tow ring and paint a white stripe on her bow.

[wlbblw]

I worked for a short line railroad & we were constantly forced to deal with old, out of date equipment that should have been in the scrap heap. We had non stop problems trying to keep that stuff running & it wasn’t for lack of maintenance. The locos & other equipment were shop queens & kept out of the weather & generally babied but they just ate up labor hours & money for repairs. New parts were always hard, if not impossible, to find & used items were as worn out as the ones we already had. Part costs were thru the roof because all their systems were made 50-60 years ago & the original manufacturers for that stuff were long since OOB. A lot of those machines were loaded with asbestos, they leaked oil & coolant everywhere, they were noisy, they vibrated, & just had zero creature comfort or ergonomics. They ate you up & spit you out by the end of the day & were a big factor in why I left a near 10 year career there. I’d assume an old boat has a lot of similarities with things like that. Just because something old CAN be restored to running condition doesn’t necessarily mean it SHOULD be.

[Guest]

Don’t forget, just because a ship sat out 10 years doesn’t really mean it’s in excellent shape.

I worked on a ship that sat out ten years (a steamer.) As part of the deck department, I reported and we were to sail in a couple days. The longer the fit-out took, the more things they found they had to do. We sailed about 30 days later. The fit-out cost doubled. They made money once we got out, but in the first couple months we entered some of the shipyards two or three times for repairs. That boat had been laid-up properly with a great deal of care. If they were really concerned about manufacturing and the steel industry in this country, the few boats left at the wall would have been out by now.

[wlbblw]

Don’t forget, just because a ship sat out 10 years doesn’t really mean it’s in excellent shape. It could have been a real mess when it was laid up. Sitting doesn’t do machines any favors. Corrosion seeps into places it shouldn't be, gaskets dry out, oils start to thicken & form sludge. Not to mention, the ship & it’s internal systems are all still OLD.

[Guest]

Couple of name shortenings come to mind. David Z and Earl W, and we know where they are now. So there may be hope. However, I can't see Algoma fitting out a long idle vessel that is captive to the upper lakes. You could use her in the salt trade, but would she fit into some of the small ports that require service? I don't doubt that the bean counters at Algoma went over every possible scenario, and a tow to Port Colborne is in the works. Problem is right now, I don't think there is much room left at the boneyard parking lot...

[tugboathunter]

In addition, the Algoma Compass was never renamed Adam L. Its radio certificate was opened under that name but the vessel itself never held that name in US or Canadian registry. On paper, and in paint, it was changed from Adam E. Cornelius and its Canadian registry was opened under the name Algoma Compass.

[tugboathunter]

There’s a serious misunderstanding of how the Jones Act works. In the USA, anybody can buy any ship they want. Built anywhere, flagged anywhere, whatever. The Jones Act has nothing to do with that. It only lays out requirements for what vessels can trade between US ports. And although the Valor was built in the USA, since it has been registered in Canada I don’t believe it is Jones Act eligible. Vessels that have been flagged out cannot be flagged back in and return to domestic Jones Act work.

[Guest]

Prohibits foreign built. It could come back because it was built in the U.S.

The Jones Act prohibits American companies from buying foreign vessels. Now that Valo is Canadian, she can't be sold to USS.

[Guest]

If the American valor is scrapped what a waste of a good ship. Why don't they sell it to uss Great Lakes fleet? That's not one of algomas competitors. I realize that they have had the Arthur m Anderson in layup for 2 years but the valor has a lot of life left in it as it hasn't sailed for 10 years. I'm sure if uss is worried about the shape the Anderson is in as it's had a hard life and they don't want to sail it the valor would be a viable choice for a ship worthy of many more years of service. Seems a shame that these good hulls are being scrapped. Makes a person wonder why in the world interlake hangs on to the sherwin as that ship needs way more costly repairs done to it before it ever sailed again compared to the ships that are being sent to scrap today.

The Jones Act prohibits American companies from buying foreign vessels. Now that Valo is Canadian, she can't be sold to USS.

[Denny]

For record purposes, I’m showing the Adam L. was renamed on or about March 14, 2018 to the Algoma Compass however my dates might just be off and it could be March 18? However, I don’t know the date that it was renamed from the AEC to the Adam L. though? I do know that she was sold to Algoma on December 21, 2017 but when then was she renamed the Adam L. if anyone knows? Thanks for any information.