Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

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William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by William Lafferty »

How about the former great lakes cruise ship Aquaria, I think she was once a liberty ship that was converted into a cruise ship.
I discus briefly the Aquarama in my post below. There were no Liberty (EC-2) ship conversions on the lakes.
Nibbler

Re: Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by Nibbler »

How about the former great lakes cruise ship Aquaria, I think she was once a liberty ship that was converted into a cruise ship.
William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by William Lafferty »

To clarify, the post this afternoon discussing Leathem D. Smith and the various USMC designs used as conversions on the lakes was from me, not "Guest," and I don't know how why I was described as such, in response to an actual "Guest" invoking my name yesterday afternoon.
guest

Re: Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by guest »

as rebuilt as a lake were not the cliffs victorys engine aft but wanting more cargo carried did they not a the stern cargo holds on at a latter date? dont forget the shaft went thru {covered} the holds. and thats why she needed 2 hatch cranes {iron deckhands} someone please correct me if im incorrect. thank you
Guest

Re: Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by Guest »

(Moderator note: this post is from William Lafferty) Disposal of tonnage controlled by the United States Maritime Commission did not occur until after the passage of the Ship Sales Act by Congress in 1946. Leathem D. Smith in the summer of 1944 proposed adapting future surplus Maritime Commission C1-M-AV1 Diesel freighters (of which his Sturgeon Bay yard built fourteen) into a new generation of package freighter to resuscitate that trade on the lakes, but using a new concept, all cargo contained in containers that could be easily transferred among ship, rail, and truck and prevent pilferage. Below is a drawing of his proposed vessel, which, clearly and amazingly, anticipated modern container ship practice by a quarter century. Note the shipboard container crane. Smith's death in 1946 halted progress on that but not before his yard produced standard containers that were eventually used by AGWI Lines after the war in its East Coast-Puerto Rico service (primarily to stop the theft of Puerto Rican rum on the docks). Smith's containerization plan is a whole other, and depressing, story. The C1-M-A1 proved a very efficient and popular vessel after the war, with good capacity but a small enough size and economy of operation to make it ideal for harbors large and small. The only one adapted for lakes use was, of course, what would become the Paul H. Townsend. The Cliffs Victory was very much an outlier as a lake conversion, adapted from a standard VC2-S-AP3 design and retaining in general the placement of its original power plant, explaining its unusual silhouette. The sudden advent of American participation in the Korean Conflict in August 1950 hastened the sale of the Notre Dame Victory to Cliffs for conversion and quickly other surplus USMC hulls. However, the remaining conversions were of vessels far more conducive for lake service, all with engines aft. The Republic trio were C4-S-A4 cargo ships with turbine drive for speed, those turbines aft, and the vessels' pilothouses far forward (though not at the bow). The McKee Sons and Joseph H. Thompson were C4-S-B1 design, dedicated tank carriers but with the same configuration. By the mid-1950s the highly successful T-2 and T-3 tankers of World War II that had found eager buyers worldwide after the war were becoming redundant as a new breed of modern oil carrier began being built worldwide here, in Asia, and Europe. The Joseph S. Young was the first T2-SE-A1 conversion in 1956 and would be followed by the T2-SE-A1 Hanna conversions and the T3-S-A1 conversions of the Walter A. Sterling and Pioneer Challenger. I think I've discussed the controversy over the foreign-built mid-bodies of those here in the past. The Aquarama began life as a C4-S-B5, a combination freight and troop carrier. The J. A. W. Iglehart was not a Maritime Commission design, built in 1936, although operated by the USMC from 26 April 1942 to 21 December 1945.
Attachments
LDS 1944.jpg
Guest

Re: Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by Guest »

I think that this idea came from the U.S. Maritime Commission. Congress in the late-1940s passed special legislation for the sale of ten war-surplus from the Maritime Administration's reserve fleet for the intended purpose of re-establishing the U.S.-flag package freight trade on the Great Lakes.

H.C Downer were involved in a number of these proposed/actual conversion of WWII surplus vessels into Great Lakes service. If you look at the specifications for the Liberty ship to Great Lakes ore carrier proposal, there are two issues that would have doomed it. One is the beam of 56 feet, and the other is the need to replace the existing engine with a Skinner-Unaflow. That's why conversions of C4 vessels were a better option.

I'm hoping that William Lafferty can add some insight into this proposal, as it's quite fascinating.
guest

Re: Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by guest »

the ss notre dame victory was converted to a laker, ss cliffs victory. the only laker with 2 hatch cranes as her engines {oriniginal steam turbinee} were in her center, amidship. there could of been other victory ships that were converted. perhaps other viewers can englighten us
William Lafferty
Posts: 1491
Joined: March 13, 2010, 10:51 am

Re: Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by William Lafferty »

There were twenty-four Liberties, EC2-S-AW1, built as coal colliers that could have had appropriate hatch configuration for use in the ore trade. Delta Shipbuilding Company, in essence American Ship Building Company, built them March-September 1945 at the Delta yard at New Orleans. They were quite successful with many in the east coast coal trade for decades, some later converted to barges. I imagine Cleveland Cliffs chose a VC2-S-AP3 for its much better turbine propulsion plant compared to the EC2's triple and its more advanced hull design. Here is a side elevation of the EC2-S-AW1.
Attachments
EC2-S-AW1.jpg
Guest

Re: Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by Guest »

Does anyone know which fleets were looking at this, or was this an architect's idea to try and sell?
Guest

Re: Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by Guest »

I came across this a few months ago while researching something else. This would have been an interesting conversion. I had always heard that the Victory ships were somewhat inferior in quality due to the need to quickly build them and general wartime supply restrictions in addition to the belief that many would be lost in action. II don't know if this is true or not. I believe the Cliffs Victory was the only Victory class ship to be converted for Great Lakes service. Does anyone know what company was looking at this proposal? Was it an early proposal for Cleveland Cliffs before they settled on the Cliffs Victory conversion?
Guest

Liberty Ship to Great Lakes Ore Carrier Proposal 1950

Unread post by Guest »

I was recently looking through the Great Lakes Maritime Collection at the Alpena Library's website, and came across some interesting ship design plans from 1950. It was a proposal for a conversion of a Liberty ship to a Great Lakes Ore carrier.

The proposed conversion would have entailed a Skinner Unaflow engine of 3,710 shp be installed to replace the steam engine in the Liberty ship, along with a lengthening to 693' OA from it's then existing 417' OA. https://greatlakeships.org/3741354/image/4641888?n=10

Here's the link to the webpage, where the plans are located on the right side of the page: https://greatlakeships.org/3741354/data?n=10

Outboard Profile: https://greatlakeships.org/3741354/image/4641883?n=10

Datasheet: https://greatlakeships.org/3741354/image/4641882?n=10
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