Boatnerd Discussion Forum

Was the Mackinaw stuck to where the Radisson had to free it or just progressed stopped and had to back and ram? The old Mackinaw had to back and ram quite often too and sometimes was stuck for many hours before it was free. The mighty Pierre Radisson was stopped quite often this winter as well.

This past winter the (new) Mackinaw was stuck many times. Just ask some sailors on the great lake boat and they got some good pictures to prove it. But she is a good buoy tender and ice breaker for the lower 1/2 of Michigan, Huron and lake Erie.

How about the Alder and the Hollyhock? Was their performance considered satisfactory this ice season?

I could be mistaken, but I believe the width didn't need to be as great because of her hull design - like the tugs, she was built to create a large wake which would break the ice. She can also position her azipods so as to flush ice where a boat may be stuck. There was video of her doing this in the Soo, perhaps on the Boatnerd Facepage.

In the 80s and 90s WAGB 83 Mackinaw was always threatened with permanent layup due to her high operating costs and that she was a single-mission vessel. Congress and the Lake Carriers had to fight for her continued operation.

The new Mackinaw (WLBB 30) is a very modern and efficient vessel that has multi-mission capabilities. If there can be any criticism of the new Mackinaw is it's width; 58 feet, versus 74 feet of WAGB 83 Mackinaw. Why they made her narrower versus the original, especially in this era of thousand-footers, I'll never know.

And while WAGB 83 Mackinaw did stalwart duty during the Winter Runs of the 70s, there were times when she had problems. In February 1977 she damaged a propellor shaft in the St. Mary's river while escorting oil tankers.

ed wrote:Ten years old is almost new in Great Lakes terms. At this rate I'm not sure the tax payers are getting their moneys worth. She was almost worthless in last winter's ice.

Far as I can tell, she never got stuck this past winter. She did an admiral job in horrendous conditions. And don't forget she is multi-purpose, tending buoys, law-enforcement, environmental response.

Good grief people, the original Mackinaw is Old and tired. She did her bit for king and country and now it's her retirement. Be lucky that Shepler's gave her a dock or she'd be scrap by now. At the end, she was prone to breakdowns and parts were hard to come by.

Mack II is a good ship. I'm quite sure the crew is happy to be on a more comfortable, advanced ship. I doubt they'd be overjoyed to read some of these armchair opinions bashing her and decreeing we return the Mack I to service - which will never ever happen.

To the crew of Mackinaw 30! Abundant thanks for the incredible work you've done, especially last winter!

Maintaining an icebreaker is not as simple nor as inexpensive as maintaining a merchant ship.

First these icebreakers are built to last 40 or 50 years.

Second they are full of redundant machinery because you must be able to keep them going.

Third, as many people have mentioned, the conditions in which they work and the things they must do while working take a definite toll on machinery and hull.

Finally, most merchant ships go from point A to point B, then return or head off to point C. While they do work through ice and occasionally touch bottom they are not required to do what icebreakers do. Merchant ships are built relatively cheap and, except for those that trade almost exclusively on the Great Lakes, they are not built to last more than 20 years, if that.

Consequently it takes more time, money and effort to maintain and upgrade an icebreaker.

Don't forget that icebreakers are also part of the political scene so if a Congressman or Member of Parliament pushes hard to get work for a shipyard in his constituency there may be more to the ship repair contract than meets the eye.

Also, military preparedness requires more time, money and effort.

Here's hoping for another really cold, long winter.
Paul
Icebreaker Captain

Ten years old is almost new in Great Lakes terms. At this rate I'm not sure the tax payers are getting their moneys worth. She was almost worthless in last winter's ice.

Other than the hull repairs, a lot of the work looks to be preventive maintenance. Take things apart and clean and inspect them.

8 years and she finally got run as hard as she would go through the hardest winter in a long time. I would imagine she would need a little work.
Also to those who believe she was a failure because she needed help, I never heard of her getting stuck and the old Mac needed help in the roughest winters. This wasn't the Radisson's first trip to the upper lakes and I remember being visited by a few "Wind" class breakers in the bad winters past. None of 'em can do it all by themselves. I think she turned out pretty good for a buoy tender.

ed wrote:That list of repairs looks very long and expensive for a ship that is almost new. Are those repairs normal for a ship of that age ?

The "New" Mack is almost ten years old. With the conditions it operates in I'm sure the long and expensive list is justified.

That list of repairs looks very long and expensive for a ship that is almost new. Are those repairs normal for a ship of that age ?

Wow! Thanks for the info. I didn't expect all of that. I had looked on the web quite a bit but didn't think about bid docs.

$1.3 million drydocking for maintenance and hull repairs.

List of work from bid solicitation:

Hull Plating (U/W Body), Ultrasonic Testing
Appendages (U/W) - Internal, Preserve
Propellers, Remove, Inspect, and Reinstall
Box Coolers, Clean, Inspect, and Test
Vent Ducts (Galley and Pantry Room All), Commercial Cleaning
Compressed Air Receivers, Clean, Inspect, and Test
Galley APC System, Test, Service, Renew Fuse-Able Link
Bow Thruster Unit, Inspect
Bow Thruster Unit AC Motor, Clean and Inspect
Anchor Chain(s) and Ground Tackle, Inspect and Repair
Hawse Pipes, Preserve
Sewage Vacuum Pumps, Overhaul
Grey Water Holding Tanks, Clean and Inspect
Sewage Holding Tanks, Clean and Inspect
U/W Body, Preserve
Impressed Current Cathodic Protection System Reference Cells, Renew
Sea Trial Performance, Provide Support
Deck Covering (Electrical Matting), Renew
Deck Covering (Interior Wet/Dry), Renew
Compartment Insulation Line Locker, Renew
Hull Plating (U/W Body), Inspect
Chain Lockers, Clean and Inspect
Tanks (MP Fuel Stowage and Overflow), Clean and Inspect
Tanks (MP Fuel Service), Clean and Inspect
Fixed CO2 Fire Extinguishing System Cylinders, Inspect and Hydrostatic Test
Sewage Transfer Pumps, Overhaul
Decks - Exterior (Buoy or Construction Deck), Preserve 100%
Temporary Services, Provide (For Azipod Tech Rep)
Forward Scan Sonar Transducer, General Maintenance, Perform
Sea Strainers - Duplex (All Sizes), Overhaul
Potable Water Pneumatic Tanks, Clean and Inspect
Sea Valves and Waster Pieces, Overhaul or Renew
Sea Chest Grate Bolt, Renewal
Hull Plating, Renew
Relief Valves, Inspect and Test
Compartment Insulation Buoy Control Booth, Renew
Radio Room Supply Vent, Repair
Appendages (U/W), Leak Test
Azipod Propulsion System Planned Drydock Maintenance, Support
Propeller, Repair
Fathometer Transducer, General Maintenance
Underwater Hull Light Fixtures, Renew
Routine Drydock
Temporary Services


Link to 202 page PDF specification that includes 2 photos of hull damage (on PDF page 168) https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=7c4c9 ... c537b087be

Anybody know what's up with the Mac? She's been in Sturgeon Bay for a long time.