Still controversy on sinking of Edmund Fitzgerald

[Guest II]

Even the Huletts looked great.

[PDBLK25]

The only thing that makes the wreck controversial is the fact people keep the controversy alive, when there is nothing to go on. The Fitz is no different from other wrecks.

Everyone can speculate until they are blue in the face, but no person alive knows what happened to the Fitz.

I have to agree with Jared and garbear, the fact that there "is nothing to go on" and that "no person alive knows what happened to the Fitz", are the reasons for the controversies' longevity. People speculate "until they are blue in the face" but to me it's just another unexplained shipwreck, like the sinking of the new James Carruthers, or the capsizing of the loaded Charles S. Price. These are also mysterious shipwrecks, but are treated as ordinary sinkings. It's time we stopped generating controversy about the Fitz & laid her to rest as just another shipwreck.

[garbear]

No. I was inside all day.

[Wheelsman]

garbear, would you have been in the position to see whether or not Caribou Island light was operating at the time? I've heard off and on about its functioning and thought Cooper even claimed the light was out. Even with the weather, the light may have been visible if it had been working. If the light was out, this to me would have been the catalyst for the whole disaster, thereby explaining the Coast Guard's twisted findings based on their "investigations". Hatch covers, spare me. McSorley even reported to Cooper that water was coming up from the bottom, lending credence to the grounding theory.

[Don_Detloff]

Garbear - That was a very interesting account of that terrible night. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[Denny]

I would also like to echo many people's comments and to thank you as well Garbear for sharing your story with all of us about that horrible tragic night on Lake Superior. Folks not familiar with the Great Lakes and the Fitzgerald tragedy, "Just do not have any clues whatsoever of the horror that the Fitzgerald and her crew along with others like yourself endured that stormy night along with the weather conditions out there as well!" Garbear have you ever considered possibly sharing or doing your story in a book as I am sure many people would be interested in hearing and reading a story like that from someone that was there and experienced those types of conditions in person? I am sure if you told that story in a book, that there would be many people including myself that would very much purchase a copy to read. You are also correct in that the Clarke was one if not the last vessels to lock through the Soo when the locks closed down that night. Thanks for sharing with all of us.

[mopar tim]

Yes thank you Garbear for sharing with us, it's nice to hear these great stories from the ones that were there. I agree with mn brett that it had to be a sick feeling to find out that you just came out of a storm that others did not. Once again much thanks and happy holidays to you and yours.

[mn brett]

Thank You as well garbear for sharing Your experience,That had to be a sick feeling to be so close to such a tragedy,I am glad Yours or any of the other lakers didn't also go down that day. Thank You, mn brett

[Paul A]

Thank you for telling your story garbear. It's very much appreciated and enjoyed.

[garbear]

Guess if my math was better I'd realize I was 23 at the time, not 25.

[garbear]

My memory is a little foggy when it comes to some things. I don't remember where we loaded, but I'd guess Duluth.
When we went to work on the 10th there were no big work plans from the bo'sun because we were in weather all day. Basically all we did that day was light work because as the day wore on the weather got worse. Probably about 2 p.m. the bo'sun said we could knock off for the day until we got to the Soo. I went back to my room and stood for a while watching the waves out my porthole. At that time the spray was already blowing off the whitecaps. At this time we were west of Whitefish. Also at this time I noticed we picked up the Algosoo to our starboard about half a mile behind us. I'm guessing she was coming out of Marquette, but just a guess.
I owned a Zenith Transoceanic radio and I turned on the marine band to see if I could pick up any chatter. I picked up a vessel agent talking to one of his boats, I could just hear the agent, not the boat. He was telling the Captain or Mate " Just to let you know you're in competition with the Fitzgerald for the unloading dock." Never heard what the other boat was. After we rounded Whitefish and got closer to Gros Cap the bo'sun got the deckhands so we could finish getting the garbage and other empties out for the supply boat. The wind had really picked up by this time and I wasn't sure that the empties would stay put because of the wind. Finally ate supper and went back to my room. As I knew we were getting close to the Soo, I started getting ready for our passage, and I looked out the aft doors and I've never seen such an eerie looking sky in my life. The clouds were yellow and seemed to be racing across the sky. We got the Poe downbound and by this time the wind had picked up so much that there was talk they might have to drop the stern anchor to slow us down. I was the first deckhand over the side and when I landed on the lock wall the water was washing over the lock wall. There was actually a steady flow of water on the wall. My leather boots got soaked. By this time the wind was blowing so hard, it was a challenge standing. The line handler and me were walking right next to each other to try to block the wind. What was surreal was as we were walking along the lens coverings from some of the street lights blew off and went sailing down the lock wall. I'm sure they still have them, but they had these almost like a fish shanty that if you were tied up you could go in them if the weather was bad. About the time we went by one, the door blew off it and down the lock it went. After we tied up in the lock, I went to the Post Office with the 1st Mate and the worker and the Mate were talking about the barometer and I believe they said at the Post Office there had been wind gusts of 98 mph. We locked thru, but by this time the Coast Guard had closed the River because of the wind. The Johnstown was tied up on the lower wall of the Mac. We probably went about 2 boatlengths below the Poe, but by this time the wind was so strong that when we went to tie up, myself and two line handlers had to stand back-to back-to back so we didn't blow over. After we were done, I went back to my room, took a nap and when I woke up I turned on the news on my TV and heard for the first time about the Fitzgerald going down. I was 25 at the time and now 62. It's something I'll never forget. In some of the books and stories from that night they do say the Clarke was the last boat thru the locks before they were closed. I think Dr. Julius Wolff in his "Shipwrecks of Lake Superior" mentions that fact.

[garbear]

mn brett-I am going out for the day to celebrate Christmas with my family, but I will post either later today or tomorrow what I can remember. I was on the Clarke and I think my memory is still okay.

[mn brett]

Which Laker were You on garbear?and can You tell us a little about Your experience that night?thank you mn brett

[garbear]

Everyone can speculate until they are blue in the face, but there is no person alive who knows what happened to the Fitz. You can guess the rogue waves, it grounded hours before it went down, but no one knows. You can dive on the wreck and even with the experts it's an educated guess. All I know is we were 4 hours ahead of the Fitz that night and it was the worst weather I've ever seen and I'm now 62 years old.

[Denny]

I totally agree with you 100% Guest as that is also my own theory to what caused her to sink. In reading your comments Guest, I have to agree that she probably grounded near Caribou Shoals and from then on, she was a sinking ship. Even Bernie Cooper believed that she bottomed out somewhere on Caribou Shoals. I also agree that a rogue wave eventually caught up to her and that is part of what finally put her under. In many reports and readings, it is said that at about 6:30 to 6:45 p.m. the Anderson and Bernie Cooper had reported "being hit by at least two large rogue waves that were about 25-35 feet in height." I think that one or perhaps more of those waves eventually caught up to the Fitzgerald a half an hour later or so and that was unfortunately the end.

[Guest]

My opinion she grounded on a shoal fractured her hull and took on a list then a rogue wave put her bow under.

Would the water pressure surging into the ship as she sunk not have blown at least some of the hatch clamps off?

[Jared]

The only thing that makes the wreck controversial is the fact people keep the controversy alive, when there is nothing to go on. The Fitz is no different from other wrecks.

[Rmankty]

I just finished reading Coast Guard report,and a article from Navweap website. However,I cant believe that the Captain and crew simply left the hatchcovers unclamped.