Boatnerd Discussion Forum

I didn't realize it was possible for one stoker to keep a boat going. I remember the display of the DM&IR Yellowstone locomotive in Duluth mentions that it was not possible to handfire a Yellowstone because at track speed (circa 20 MPH) pulling 18,000 tons of ore cars + the weight of the locomotive, it needed 350 pounds of coal PER MINUTE to keep up steam.

I'm pretty certain the gross tonnage of the Morrow loaded was quite a bit less than 18,000 tons. But the rolling resistance of a steel wheels on rail is also a lot less than a hull through the water. Curious if anyone knows how many pounds of coal per hour or per minute that stoker had to throw into the Morrow's firebox to maintain speed.

By comparison I don't think I'll ever complain again about what it takes to keep my wood boiler going in the depths of a Minnesota winter. :) :)

geysir wrote:In 1973 the 600-foot Kinsman Independent (built 1906?) and the 440-foot Joe Morrow left the Soo locks about the same time, heading upbound to Superior. The race was on! The Independent had two firemen on a watch to shovel coal while the smaller Morrow only had one per watch. After many hours of racing side by side the Independent broke the 9 mph barrier and inched ahead of the Morrow. On my 4-8 watch on the Independent the bigger fireman always had 6 eggs and pancakes for breakfast after our watch. The smaller fireman only had 4 eggs and pancakes.

I stand corrected. The George Seedhouse would do 10+ mph, not 12+ My memory is slipping.

Here are three Cliffs laker speeds pre-1906:

Andaste light 12.31 / loaded 10.80

Falcon light 11.00 / loaded 10.00

Frontenac light 12.22 / loaded 10.89

Here are two Cliffs laker speeds 1922:

Angeline light 11.50 / loaded 10.50

Presque Isle light 12.3 / loaded 11.2

Jared wrote:Well the package/ Passanger freighter City of Buffalo raced the river excursion steamer Tashmoo across Lake Erie at a speed of 21-23. Both were hand fired coal burners. I would not be surprised if some straight Deckers achieved speeds 12-16mph with coal fired boilers.

On Kinsman's George Seedhouse (1910) we would do around 12+ mph with a reciprocating steam engine, but that had auto stokers. The Herbert Jackson, now getting diesel engines, burned coal through 1974.

Well the package/ Passanger freighter City of Buffalo raced the river excursion steamer Tashmoo across Lake Erie at a speed of 21-23. Both were hand fired coal burners. I would not be surprised if some straight Deckers achieved speeds 12-16mph with coal fired boilers.

Don't know what her actual speed was but the Chief Wawatam beat the new diesel- electric state ferry Vacationland in a race across the straits. They had all 3 engines going and hand picked their coal. The Chief had to back out and turn around while the Vacationland, being a true double-ender, just left her slip. The Chief passed her on the windward side over half way across and blew coal soot all over the white ferry. Capt. Mike Bishop in command. Story courtesy of "Chief Wawatam, Story of a Hand Bomber"

the old JB Ford and EM Ford both ran 10. plus miles per hour

Darryl wrote:9 miles per hour. Interesting. On one of the old Steinies I was on, it regularly cruised at 8 mph across Lake Superior. It made it a two day crossing. We used the time to splice cables and lines (seamanship.) But that was an oil burner. Was the Badger a hand bomber originally and had stokers put in later? That's got to be one of the faster non-turbine coal burners..

Badger was never a hand-bomber.

The Badger was built with an auto stoker.

9 miles per hour. Interesting. On one of the old Steinies I was on, it regularly cruised at 8 mph across Lake Superior. It made it a two day crossing. We used the time to splice cables and lines (seamanship.) But that was an oil burner. Was the Badger a hand bomber originally and had stokers put in later? That's got to be one of the faster non-turbine coal burners...

In 1973 the 600-foot Kinsman Independent (built 1906?) and the 440-foot Joe Morrow left the Soo locks about the same time, heading upbound to Superior. The race was on! The Independent had two firemen on a watch to shovel coal while the smaller Morrow only had one per watch. After many hours of racing side by side the Independent broke the 9 mph barrier and inched ahead of the Morrow. On my 4-8 watch on the Independent the bigger fireman always had 6 eggs and pancakes for breakfast after our watch. The smaller fireman only had 4 eggs and pancakes.

Once again enjoying my new book The Kinsman Lines, compliments of Skip Gillham (thanks Skip), and looking at all the coal burning freighters they had, made the question come to mind: what hand fired freighter was the fastest? Not just of the Kinsman fleet but overall fastest hand fired freighter either American or Canadian. To me it was amazing that the giants of the lakes and oceans were once propelled by hand and shovel.