ASC's Buffalo Sold Canadian

[Guest]

Several posts suggest this was about getting a good river class boat and scrapping the other three. Are they suggesting the Cornelius is only good for scrap ?

[Guest]

GuestfromEU -Why Purvis at the Soo rather than Marine Recyclers Port Colborne? Port Colborne is a much more active scrapper.

I agree that this is just about the 1 good river class ship and probably scrap value on the other 3. Self unloader booms and gear may be salvaged to convert a few of the Equinox flat backs. They were built with the extra cubic for a reason. Dofasco has been a primary reason for having gearless ships and they are beating the crap out of them with the unloading clams.

There is no chance of notching for a tug, that's an American way. There are very few advantages for crewing or avoiding regulatory standards in Canada by notching and tug. Gluing a salvaged stern on, is the Canadian way. That is possible if management isn't satisfied with the foreign builds or the pace of delivery.

[GuestfromEU]

A non-compete clause and first right of refusal in sale were no doubt included in the contract of sale.

The old Algoma boats will not be mated to any such old steamer. Why replace 60 year old out-of-date machinery with 45 year-old out-of-date machinery? Fuel consumption alone would rule this improbable, in addition to issues with emissions if classified as a major rebuild. There is no realistic way the American Valor could be shortened 27 feet in length.

You will see the American Valor at Purvis in the Soo sometime soon, and the Victory likely not far behind, if not first. This was a package deal, in that ASC was able to unload three junk boats as part of purchasing one decent hull. Same as when Oglebay Norton sold to ASC in 2006, the three steamers were a package deal that went with the three diesel ships. Remember, this is an accounting business and the financials need to make sense. ASC is also absolved of liability in future recycling operations for these ships, and the potential claims and litigation that are associated with this.

I am not up to speed with Transport Canada and Lloyds, as to what systems are required to be brought to current standards if an older vessel undergoes a major refit. With DNV and ABS, this would effectively rule out any potential modifications to the three old hulls, on a cost basis alone.

[Guest]

Not to complicate this subject, but I was wondering if Algoma might sell the Valor and/or Victory to an American operator, i.e. sell Victory to Interlake for upgrade like Lee Tregurtha and Valor to Van Enkevort (sorry if spelled wrong!) for conversion to a tug/barge combo. I ask this because both boats are too big for the canal or seaway; both boats are still flying the U.S.flag; and, in my way of thinking, they just don't seem to "fit" into the Algoma fleet. Just a thot.

I would assume ASC would have protected itself against such a transaction. In any case, the Algoma release indicated all four ships to be reflagged Canadian.

Perhaps the American Valor and American Victory are candidates for stern transplants from some of Algoma's other ships nearing retirement. I would imagine the hulls of the Algorail and Algoway are probably pretty worn out but what condition are their powerplants in? Could the sterns of these vessels be employed in such conversions? Perhaps done in a way to bring the American Valor down to the 740' foot length?

[Guest]

Not to complicate this subject, but I was wondering if Algoma might sell the Valor and/or Victory to an American operator, i.e. sell Victory to Interlake for upgrade like Lee Tregurtha and Valor to Van Enkevort (sorry if spelled wrong!) for conversion to a tug/barge combo. I ask this because both boats are too big for the canal or seaway; both boats are still flying the U.S.flag; and, in my way of thinking, they just don't seem to "fit" into the Algoma fleet. Just a thot.

American Victory is 730x75 and will fit in the Seaway.

[Guest]

Does the Adam e. need a 5 year inspection?

Yes.

[ashland69]

Not to complicate this subject, but I was wondering if Algoma might sell the Valor and/or Victory to an American operator, i.e. sell Victory to Interlake for upgrade like Lee Tregurtha and Valor to Van Enkevort (sorry if spelled wrong!) for conversion to a tug/barge combo. I ask this because both boats are too big for the canal or seaway; both boats are still flying the U.S.flag; and, in my way of thinking, they just don't seem to "fit" into the Algoma fleet. Just a thot.

[guest]

Does the Adam e. need a 5 year inspection?

[hausen]

Can a tug/barge combo be split at the lock and the barge winched through? Done all the time with barge tows on the Mississippi, just curious if that's an option to get through the Welland Canal.

It's possible (that's how the Great Lakes Trader came to the Great Lakes from the builder's yard on the Gulf Coast) but it's time consuming and involves an extra tug transiting with the combo. Doubt anyone involved would have the patience for such an operation that becoming a standard operating procedure.

[MilwBob]

So at this point we don't know if the Valor or Victory will return to active service or of they do, we don't know if they'll be cut down to ATBs or flat out scrapped? Is that what the gist of it is?

Correct. Everything everyone is saying about the steamers is purely conjecture based on opinions or rumors. Algoma has made no firm statements that I've seen concerning either the Valor or Victory.

[ashland69]

I was thinking that enough of her stern could be removed/redesigned to accommodate a tug and keep the overall length down to 740. But, I see your point and agree with you. Therefore, as you suggested, the best bet is probably alter the stern to reduce its length from 767 to 740, fit it out and run it.

[Jared]

So at this point we don't know if the Valor or Victory will return to active service or of they do, we don't know if they'll be cut down to ATBs or flat out scrapped? Is that what the gist of it is?

[Ray]

Can a tug/barge combo be split at the lock and the barge winched through? Done all the time with barge tows on the Mississippi, just curious if that's an option to get through the Welland Canal.

The only thing that confuses me is American Valor is 767 feet long.
That rules out the Welland Canal ?

Convert her to a tug/barge combo with a maximum overall length, including notched tug, of 740 feet.

[Guest]

Just a guess but it probably was you want the 2 motor vessels you gotta take the steamers or were going to sell them to someone else, I doubt Algoma has any interest in them If they do it'll be interesting to see if they tow the Victory to Thunder Bay

[hausen]

The only thing that confuses me is American Valor is 767 feet long.
That rules out the Welland Canal ?

Convert her to a tug/barge combo with a maximum overall length, including notched tug, of 740 feet.

They'd have to cut a middle section out of the Valor's cargo holds for that. Valor's near-sister ship Reserve in converted barge form is exactly 740' long without tug. With tug the James Kuber is probably around 800' long or more. There's no way a converted ATB Valor w/ tug would fit through a seaway lock without removing valuable revenue-generating cargo holds.

Reconfiguring the Valor's stern as part of a repowering project has a better chance of taking 37' off her length.

Or Algoma could leave her at 767' on the Upper Lakes running ore from Marquette or the Lakehead to Sault Ste. Marie or Nanticoke, grain from Thunder Bay to Lake Huron, or she could load stone from Lake Huron, coal from Lake Erie, and/or salt from Goderich / Windsor and take any of those cargoes to any port upstream from Port Colborne.

Funny to think that if she returned to service in that manner, Valor would become the longest laker to ever fly the Canadian flag.

[ashland69]

The only thing that confuses me is American Valor is 767 feet long.
That rules out the Welland Canal ??

Convert her to a tug/barge combo with a maximum overall length, including notched tug, of 740 feet.

[garbear]

Next question for Guest what Algoma ships will be going to the bone Yard. Also what are the chances of American Valour and American Victory ending up either in Port Colborne or Alang. Algoma does not seem to have much use for older ships even if their in good shape. (James Norris)

American Valor won't end up in Alang. Too long to go down the Seaway.

[tugboathunter]

That makes the ASC fleet 1/2 1000-footers. They must not be so optimistic about the river-class segment.

[Guest]

Boothe is now gone from the list.

[Shipwatcher1]

http://www.americansteamship.com/fleet/index.php

ASC updated their fleet list. One curiosity is that the ATB Ken Boothe Sr. / Lakes Contender appears on the list.

If they plan on leasing that vessel for next season, that would explain how they could run 12 ships but still leave the American Courage at the wall, which NJA alluded to in his post below.

They can't lease. VanEnkevort owns that vessel now.