Incan Superior

[Guest]

In 1874 I was living 5 blocks from burrard dry docks. I went to her christening as a spectator. She was built similar to the carrier princess, the cpr built another rail car ferry, the incan st. Laurent. She is still in service, but owned by Canadian national, as the georges alexander libel. It operates from matane, Quebec to baie comeau with rail cars and "drop" truck trailers. On inducement she also goes to port cartier, Sept isles and harve St Pierre. The only train ferry ""no passengers" on the great lakes, st lawrence river still operating

Thanks for the information on the Georges Alexander Libel as I had never heard of it until now. Interesting to see the similarities, and differences, in the design of this ship and the Incan Superior.

[Guest Jon Paul]

Speaking of the Incan Superior, their retired captain, Captain Metz would post very interesting information here from time-to-time. I hope he is doing well.

Capt Metz is doing well and living year round near Copper Harbor MI.

[jim gallant]

In 1874 I was living 5 blocks from burrard dry docks. I went to her christening as a spectator. She was built similar to the carrier princess, the cpr built another rail car ferry, the incan st. Laurent. She is still in service, but owned by Canadian national, as the georges alexander libel. It operates from matane, Quebec to baie comeau with rail cars and "drop" truck trailers. On inducement she also goes to port cartier, Sept isles and harve St Pierre. The only train ferry ""no passengers" on the great lakes, st lawrence river still operating

[Darryl1]

Speaking of the Incan Superior, their retired captain, Captain Metz would post very interesting information here from time-to-time. I hope he is doing well.

[Mr Link]

In the 1970's Canadian Pacific had all-rail routes from Thunder Bay to the U.S. Midwest (where a lot of newsprint was shipped to), but they involved routing traffic through either Winnipeg or Sudbury, which are hardly direct routes. Canadian National had a more direct route from Thunder Bay westerly to International Falls and then south (on its subsidiary Duluth, Winnipeg, and Pacific), but were of course a competitor of CP. Here is a portion of a 1974 route map for the Canadian Pacific system, published by Trains Magazine.

While the CP didn't fully purchase the Soo Line until 1990, it (or its financiers) gained control of the Soo Line about 1888 and the Duluth South Shore and Atlantic in 1890, so CP's rail presence in Duluth/Superior dates to the late 1800's.

As to why there is no direct rail route from Thunder Bay to Duluth, I suspect the ruggedness of the Canadian Shield in that area has a lot to do with it. Canadian Pacific had to build three temporary explosives factories just to complete the section along the north shore of Lake Superior.

As an aside, note that in 1974 CP had not yet gained any trackage rights from Detroit/Windsor to Chicago so all their intermodal traffic heading east from Chicago went through Sault Ste. Marie. They didn't get Detroit to Chicago trackage rights from CSX until 1985 and then moved to Norfolk Southern in 2005.

[Guest]

Canadian Pacific and Inchcape Ltd. created a joint venture called Incan Marine in 1973 for the movement of newsprint in railcars from the Great Lakes Paper Company in Thunder Bay to Superior, Wis.

Looking at railroad maps from that time period it doesn't appear that CP Rail had a direct connection into northern Minnesota when Incan Superior operated on the route from Thunder Bay to Superior. It was in the mid- to late 1980s that Soo Line took over the Milwaukee Road and then Canadian Pacific purchased Soo Line, so perhaps CP Rail gained trackage rights from CN Rail into Duluth and Superior? I'm puzzled as to why there is no direct rail line from Thunder Bay to Duluth.

[Guest]

Was there no rail links between Thunder Bay, Ontario and Superior, Wisconsin that prompted the construction of the Incan Superior? It seems like a short route, and I was wondering what was the primary reason for its construction. Was there a significant savings to move a relatively small number of cars across Lake Superior in comparison to moving by land? Did the goods coming in by water save any importation costs compared to rail entry into the United States?