Challenger Conversion

[Guest]

Here a few pictures I took of the St. Marys Challenger at Bay Shipbuilding in 2009. Quality may have been affected by having to downsize.

[Guest]

If it had not been converted into a cement carrier in 1967, this ship would have been scrapped sometime during the late 1960s to early 1970s. Therefore we have been able to see the vessel in its present form for nearly 50 years. While the Challenger being rebuilt into a barge configuration may not as be aesthetically appealing to most, at least it will continue to serve a vital function in transporting cargoes for its owners on the Great Lakes. After all, that is the original purpose for which it was built 107 years ago.

[TWilush]

although a conversion is likely, it is not due to rotting boiler cradles. when the ships hull is inspected, a conservsion will depend on the condition of the stern end. overtime, since her conversion to a cement carrier, all the plating, except that end, has been replaced. if its found to be in good shape, then repowering is likely. if its not in good shape, well you know what I mean

Re-powering is not happening regardless, she is being barged.

[Chris M]

Incorrect. It has already been confirmed that she will be barged

[Guest]

if its found to be in good shape, then repowering is likely.

So what will they do take it off the dry dock, order engines and do the engineering work and installation all before next season? That's an impossible time line.

[middlerouge]

although a conversion is likely, it is not due to rotting boiler cradles. when the ships hull is inspected, a conservsion will depend on the condition of the stern end. overtime, since her conversion to a cement carrier, all the plating, except that end, has been replaced. if its found to be in good shape, then repowering is likely. if its not in good shape, well you know what I mean

[Johny]

What precipitated the move to ATB or dieselize?

Is it rotting boiler cradles?

-Johny

[Guest]

Anyone know what time on Sunday she will be departing Chicago?

[Guest]

Did the Challenger arrive in SB yet?

It left Charlevoix today, loaded for Chicago.

[Guest]

Did the Challenger arrive in SB yet?

[Darryl]

Barging might have been a trend, and I hope it's over.

[Andrew]

I agree with several of the posts below; once she is barged she's as good as gone for me.

[Guest]

Great Lakes Fleet (Which switched back to ships despite pioneering the concept with the Presque Isle decades ago)

United States Steel did not commission the building of the Presque Isle. It was built by Litton for operation in its Wilson Marine Transit Company. By the time the Presque Isle entered operation (Dec 1973), however, the Wilson fleet no longer existed. Two years later, Litton entered into a long-term (25 year) charter agreement with US Steel. It would be in this fleet, and its successors, that the Presque Isle remained before it was purchased outright towards the end of the 1997 season. Following the construction of the Roger Blough in 1972, US Steel did not embark upon any further new construction until 1974 when it entered into a contract with Bay Shipbuilding for the Edwin H. Gott. I have never seen any evidence that US Steel ever considered having any tug/barge units built for use on the Great Lakes.

[Randy S]

Amen Chief. Well said Thank You

[Guest]

As far as personal interest goes, she'd be as good as gone for me. But it's still nice that parts of her will continue doing useful work, serving customers, and providing jobs even if all the romance is gone.

Better than a scrapyard.

[Guest]

You won't see many more barge conversions if any. It isn't the 1990's any longer.

The big players on the Lakes never embraced it and only Interlake has experimented with it and has soundly switched back to powered vessels when making major investments since then. Canada Steamship Lines, Algoma Central, Upper Lakes before they got swallowed up, American Steamship Corporation, Lower Lakes Shipping, and Great Lakes Fleet (Which switched back to ships despite pioneering the concept with the Presque Isle decades ago) are very soundly in the ship business and their major investments indicate they plan to remain in it. And I suspect Central Marine Logistics when the time comes for major work will do likewise.

It has been the fringe players responsible for barging large freighters. And most of those handful of conversions date to years ago while scores of ships have since been repowered, planned to be repowered, or newly built in the case of these Chinese vessels for Canada with only a pair of new build large ATB's in recent decades.

Like has been said, standards have been toughened on barges, crew sizes aboard ship have decreased, and fuel prices have closed the gap. Where the long-term is concerned for a vessel operating the course of a season it appears like a powered vessel easily wins these days.

The Reserve and Buckeye needed work and got barged because the initial cash outlay of the work itself was so much lower for their owners and they were on a tight budget. And they were hardly a large company in the mainstream of operating large lake freighters. And they're the only two examples in years.

If they're barging the St. Mary's Challenger, it's because the conversion is significantly cheaper and her short and sporadic seasons and typical cargo runs reduce the fuel efficiency advantages a powered ship holds.

The future of the ATB concept for new construction on the Great Lakes is for smaller vessels trading over short distances. Powered vessels have soundly won out for large lake freighters and the advantages will continue to swing more to its side as fuel prices rise.

[Chief]

I agree that we will see more of the Trillium class vessels on the Canadian side but doubt there will be many barge conversions. The barge conversions are too sensitive to moderate foul weather and there aren't that many ships left to convert. The american side at some point in the future will have to come up with a plan to replace some of the aging vessels. Even the 1000 footers aren't going to last forever and ships like the USS AAA's are over 60 years old. Interlake and their repowering plan will give their vessels maybe another 30 years. The LAT though a beautiful ship is over 70 years old and she too will last pobably another 30 years, making her 100 years old. In the70's and early 80's there was the building boom by ASC for their River Class and the 1000 footers, so some where over the horizon there will probably be another building boom of ship we have never imagined. Yes we become partial to certain ships and this is because alot us us sailed these ships in out youth and remember the "good old days" where you would see 30 ships a day pass Port Huron and fleets like USS had 60 plus ships sailing. We will never see it again, so it is nice that a few of the old classic laker's like the Challenger are still around for us to remember and relive some of our youth, the days of hand fired steamers and the smell of coal smoke. I am fortunate that I came in at the very end of the classic steamers and saw the transition to the 1000 footers and river boats, but I still miss the classic 600 footers and their classic laker profile. For those too young to remember them, thanks to places like Boatnerd you can still see what they were like and discuss with people that sailed them what it was like. There aren't but a couple ships that still have the classic laker profile and the Challenger is one of them. Th remainder have been converted to self unloaders, barges,or scrapped.

[Guest]

The Challenger is operationally sound and earns the company money,this But her power plant would have to be replaced sometime to meet the stupid epa deadlines in the future.so I guess barging is cheaper than putting a diesel in her or they wouldn't do it.but as far people not having an issue with her being turned into a barge I think you're all crazy,because in my opinion its the same as being scrapped.

[jz]

The romanticism for a 106 year old boat is not "goofy" but a rather normal reaction by a group of individuals who treasure the history of their hobby and who have deep respect for the achievements, charm and economic importance of Great Lakes shipping.

[Rufus]

I'm all for seeing the Challenger converted to a barge. This romanticism for a 106 year boat that was no longer operationally sound or competitive is goofy. If the choice is between conversion to a barge versus being scrapped, then I'm very happy with the move to barge.

We will see a lot more barge conversions. And new ships like the Trillium class. Great Lakes shipping is an intensely competitive business where managing productivity and thin margins is a make or break game.