Trillium and Equinox vs. Traditional Lakers.

[ed]

I watched the PRT and the new Algoma boat pass Port Huron yesterday. These newer boats lack the mystic of the old traditional boats. Their cookie cutter design leaves much to be desired. They look almost like they were built on a production line. I sure miss the old style of classic design and function.

[TWilush]

It could be worse remember about 10 yrs ago when we were continually told any new builds would be barges.

On the US side maybe, but the Canadian fleet is a different animal entirely many of whose routes are not suitable to ATBs. These new builds confirm that.

[Guest]

It could be worse remember about 10 yrs ago when we were continually told any new builds would be barges.

[Guest]

It's good to see everyone sharing their opinions on the new boats and their preferences in general. Let's not forget they're just that, opinions; something we're all entitled to have and share if we please. I think that's one of the purposes of this forum. Without intending to offend anyone, I would suggest that anyone who is upset by a viewpoint that differs from their own has a choice to make about visiting this or any site. We all have our own reasons for tuning in. The reasons can vary from A to Z and design aesthetics is in that range. Thanks for hearing my thoughts !

I second this, why would it be wrong to be a boatwatcher when theres trainwatchers, planewatchers, carwatchers and even elevatorwatchers?

[bhale849]

I started this post, you know. The guy who likes Traditional Lakers (fore & aft cabins); and doesn't like Chinese newbuilds. (If Canadian firms run them, they should be built in Canada.) I don't think criticism keeps Professional Mariners from this Site. Actually, we don't know how many Mariners are "ON". Web addresses don't tell. I was a Professional Great Lakes Mariner until permanently disabled by destruction of my Mylan Sheath (a side effect of blood poisoning). Ask any Doctor what that does to you. I cannot, lost 100 lbs., have much trembling (subdued by drugs), Etc. Needless to say, I'll never work on a ship again.
I prefer the older traditional ships, even as an O.S. They were built for huge crews, so almost everyone had a cabin to themselves. (On the new, cheaper boats, you look at a lot of exposed Conduit & Pipes.) Pilothouse forward makes it easier to steer in tight places.

[Guest]

It's good to see everyone sharing their opinions on the new boats and their preferences in general. Let's not forget they're just that, opinions; something we're all entitled to have and share if we please. I think that's one of the purposes of this forum. Without intending to offend anyone, I would suggest that anyone who is upset by a viewpoint that differs from their own has a choice to make about visiting this or any site. We all have our own reasons for tuning in. The reasons can vary from A to Z and design aesthetics is in that range. Thanks for hearing my thoughts !

[Randy M]

A few different ways you can look at it:

- Shipping companies are under pressure by government agency's to reduce emissions, and possibly fuel changes.

- Cost to construct two structures (on a fore aft ship) would cost too much, and provide unnecessary weight.

- be able to carry as much as possible.

The new ships such as the trillium/equinox class aren't designed the way they are just 'for the hell of it', they are designed that way to emit less emissions, carry as much as possible for as cheap as possible. And to also be built as cheap as possible. At least we have new ships coming on the lakes, and we have companies such as Algoma/CSL reinvesting on great lakes shipping. I think it would be quite amusing to see the reactions on this site if instead of building the Equinox class, Algoma decided to just carve a notch in the Soo/Way/Qubecois/Montrealis and Tug and Barge them like so many other companies are doing/have done before. I for one welcome Algoma's and CSL's new ships, its a step in the right direction for this entire industry as a whole.

[wlbblw]

I myself am a professional railroader by trade. I've seen some crazy things over the years. Recently, Norfolk Southern chose to paint up 20 locomotives in the schemes of the old lines that make up NS today. They call it the Heritage Fleet. On first impression, a railfan photographer's wildest dream right? Sure, but it didn't take long before the railfan community started to complain that this detail on this engine isn't 100% correctly original & bla bla bla. I couldn't believe it, but NS actually took some of the units BACK to the paint shop to make a stripe here or a logo a little smaller there. I thought to myself "wow" how can people be so ingracious? NS didn't have to do ANY of that! Now they're starting a steam engine program & I bet people will complain about that too. So I'm used to seeing "fans" lose perspective. It bothers us railroaders because a lot of times these people invite themselves on the property as if it was their own to do as they please on the equipment. Sometimes I need to remind them that they are guests & should be greatful our little short line is still running & not to take it for granted because we're all happy just to be working here...I never for one second want to look like that to the maritime professionals I encounter in this fun hobby & that's why I commented here.

[wlbblw]

I get it. The new ones ARE "different" & they sure are "non traditional", but times change. I'd rather they were built here too, but it's a global economy now & we need to accept it because the owners are still committing serious money in the bet that they can keep these boats busy & have everyone involved from the head of the company on down to the crewmen & associated industry personal keep working at their respective jobs. It doesn't matter to me what it looks like. I'd prefer certain things, but would never exclude them. It all reminds me of a story an older guy told me once. He said when the steam engines all started going out on the railroad, all the railfans ran around trying to get photos of stuff that was there for years to shoot at your leisure. They all ignored the first generation of diesels that replaced them because they wern't steam. Then when the second generation diesels came out, they all ran out to shoot the first engines that were being replaced. It's short sighted thinking, that's all. Some day, someone is going to lament the last "Trilium" or "Equinox" when they tow it to the boneyard 50 years from now, but my son will still have the shots I took when we went out to see them when they were new...

[PaulBeesley]

I think these new ships are marvellous. As I watch them go by I can't help but be a bit jealous of the crews as they discover more and more about their new ship. Imagine the learning curve and the satisfaction of knowing you are one of the original crew!

As a professional mariner I try to picture all the effort required to learn the new equipment and machinery and handling characteristics and to wonder how it would feel to be involved and what the rewards would be as you become more and more familiar with it all.

I've been original crew on one new ship (CCGS Earl Grey - sister to the Samuel Risley) and it was a wonderful experience.

I prefer a new ship any day. Your 1972 Datsuns belong in the history book.

[Ron]

As to the idea that the new ships all look alike. Don't forget that the bulk carrier built for the ore trade for about 60 years all were of the same basic design. The traditional straight decker came in various lengths, 600' being the most famous and were the largest class in numbers, 524' class, 440' class, 640' superlakers, 620' maritimers, 647' clas built in 1952-3 for the Korean war demands, 414' class, and many others. They did variety in colors and owners. The fleet owners and their history are worthy of study and posts more than we have. The vessel owners and their needs were the reason the ships were built. Who can forget the triple expansion steam engines which ruled the great lakes. The economics of the Quadruple expansion steam engine, which proven costly to operate in a competitive environment, proved their downfall. I dream on too long. See ys later
Ron

[kcboatnerd]

Right on wlbblw. I prefer the look of the traditional lakers because that's what I grew up watching, but the new ones do have a personality all their own. In the end any day I can see a laker make the turn under the Blue Water Bridge is a good day.

[Pjmfan]

Finally, an honest and true reader-Thank you for the truth. I sometimes get very annoyed with a few posts on such a good and informative web site. Being a professional sailor myself.

[Denny]

Right on Brian and I couldn't agree with you more on your words and comments. I know exactly where you are coming from as I take photos of just about anything I see as well up on the river in St. Clair and Port Huron. The looks of the ships don't bother me and like you and I am thankful and grateful just to see anything and take photos of it. I think a few of us take it per granted as some live close to the water and get to see most everything that passes by. Many forget about the ones that don't live close to the water and would do anything and give anything just to be there and see a boat. I agree about the history and to see it while you can. That is why I wanted to see the 1913 storm display in Port Huron at the museum and I am glad that I got to see it. Yeah I know the new boats aren't built in Canada or in the U.S. but, at least it is better having a boat to look at then not having one. For me, I would much rather have a boat built in China to see and photograph then not to have any to look at.

[Shipwatcher1]

I'm sure from an operational and comfort view, the crews enjoy working the newer ships

[wlbblw]

To honest with all of you, I'm a little dissapointed to read this thread. I'm almost getting a sense of "entitlement" from all these posts. Our boatnerd community is small to begin with & usually seen by the public as a little strange sometimes. Now, to sit here & nit pick about the looks of this boat or that one & to say that you wouldn't be interested in seeing a tug & barge, or a new freighter because of it's design? That's just too much & I had to say something. Thats part of the reason a lot of maritime professinals will avoid this site because they read stuff like this & think we're all nuts. We are Lucky we get to see anything at all up here on the lakes. I myself enjoy the entire aspect of shipping seen here. I like tugs, barges, warships, lakers, tankers, saltwater ships, sailing ships, whatever, it's all good & always interesting. Don't take things for granted, it could all end in no time. Enjoy the history & go see it happening any chance you can get, shoot photos & video, record what's happening before it's gone.

[Guest]

I love the older lakers and It's sad seeing them go I think we all agree. But we haven't heard from any crew members who work the ships themselves. My question, do the crews have A preference, older versus the newer ships. Traditional pilot house
forward or all accommodations in the stern. What are the pro's and con's of these differences in design

[jacques]

have to agree with astz, planned obsolescence has now come to the lakes.

[hayhugh2]

Regarding Chief's post, the ability to identify one of the classics by her specific features or lack of features is so very true.

The old Joe Thompson with her whisky bottle stack comes to mind.

[ed]

These new boats are a lot like these new cars. They all look alike and have no personality. Years ago you could tell one car from another a mile away ( just like different boats ). My days of enjoying boats at Port Huron and the Saint Clair river are over. Just one barge after another now days.