American Fortitude Updates?

[Guest]

Has IMS ever sold a laker after they purchased it?

I believe so, but not in recent years. There was a time not very long ago, where shipping companies on the lakes didn't care. They themselves sold their retired vessels to the highest bidder.

But the success of Lower Lakes, the decline in viable hulls, the good condition of some of these vessels, and the huge expense in new construction has changed that story over the past 15 years.

With all due respect, do the right thing for who?

While I understand what you're getting at, if a vessel has a lot of life left in it and can be put to useful service for decades more to support domestic industry and employ people, it's hard to accept it going to scrap just because they're scared of Lower Lakes Shipping.

It's good for ASC's bottom line, but there's certainly an argument for the other line of thought as well.

Is IMS is even legally allowed to resell? I would imagine there is a legal contract signed that ASC sells the hull to IMS to be scrapped, and only scrapped; nothing more, nothing less.

Been shown to not hold up, several times.

Plus, they bought her from Brownsville, not from ASC. Brownsville likely fulfilled their part of the contract by selling her to another scrapyard when they decided not to expend more money into sending her south.

Unless Brownsville signed a contract with them and took them to court (And why would they?), I don't see an avenue for anyone to lodge what surely would be a futile protest.

The only thing that will certainly see to her demise, is that IMS is a going concern in the business of scrapping ships, with retired lakers the bulk of their business. They're not going to take a little extra money here and risk further dealings with Great Lakes fleets in the years to come.

[Guest]

IMS really shouldn't worry about upsetting other customers. ASC proved it was disloyal by selling the burton to bay bridge in the first place IMS thought it was going to them to begin with. As far as other fleets the only ones scrapping anytime soon would be Algoma and CSL. Algoma seems to split between IMS and overseas (not sure if there's a rhym or reason to that). And any of the future boats Algoma sells for scrap is probably in such condition that another company wouldn't want them.

With the Burton we are talking about a ship that is in, by all accounts,
Great condition and scrapping it is really a waste.

IMS should do the right thing and sell it for use.

With all due respect, do the right thing for who? Boatnerds who want to see it still run? A company can choose to do with an asset what they want. That decision is not made lightly.

Unless I missed something, there is no proof either that ASC was "disloyal" with IMS...you can talk and negotiate with a scrapper all you want...but unless you break a legal contract, the ship is fair game. Bay Bridge probably offered (at the time) a much better price for the hull.

If you're tying to sell a car, and you tell someone that hey I like your offer, I'll probably accept it, then days later someone else says hey I'll give you more, is that being disloyal?

[Guest]

Has IMS ever sold a laker after they purchased it?

What kind of profit can be made from scrapping a big laker thanks?

[JMc]

Is IMS is even legally allowed to resell? I would imagine there is a legal contract signed that ASC sells the hull to IMS to be scrapped, and only scrapped; nothing more, nothing less. Something similar to a non-compete clause that certain companies make their outgoing employees sign?

There are only a handful of companies left in the business, ASC knows this and I'm sure would want to keep it out of the hands of a competitor. Scrap prices are very low right now (compared to the last 10 years) and I know they could have made a lot more money selling it directly to another operator. There's a reason they didn't.

Trust me, I hate to see another classic go to the breaker, but from their perspective, business is business.

[Guest]

It can be differentiated quite easy.
A company can scrap a ship wherever it wants (Algoma).
IMS made it known that they were expecting the Burton and then it was sold out from under them to Bay Bridge.

As far as the other two idle hulls remember there is no place other than IMS to scrap the Valor. Too long to be towed out the seaway.

[Guest]

Proof that a hand shake means nothing anymore. Hopefully she is spared.

[Guest]

IMS really shouldn't worry about upsetting other customers. ASC proved it was disloyal by selling the burton to bay bridge in the first place IMS thought it was going to them to begin with. As far as other fleets the only ones scrapping anytime soon would be Algoma and CSL. Algoma seems to split between IMS and overseas (not sure if there's a rhym or reason to that). And any of the future boats Algoma sells for scrap is probably in such condition that another company wouldn't want them.

With the Burton we are talking about a ship that is in, by all accounts,
Great condition and scrapping it is really a waste.

IMS should do the right thing and sell it for use.

You comment that "Algoma seems to split between IMS and overseas (not sure if there's rhym or reason to that) and "ASC proved it was disloyal ......"

How are you able to differentiate this information?

[Pete in Holland MI]

Was just thinking that it has to be really wierd for a crewman to be on boart the boat while being towed, and not feel/hear the machinery on board. Spooky.

[old sailer]

For being in layup since 2008 American Fortitude looks just great. It's so sad that one of large Canadian fleets let's their ships paint deteriorate to the state they are in today. Makes one wonder if they are in just as bad of shape inside.

[pcolachap]

The Ernest T. Weir made several Seaway trips in 1959. Hanna ran all three of their large boats, the Humphrey & the Thompson were the other two. They loaded Seven Islands and were unloaded generally in Cleveland and Ashtabula. '59 was the year of the 116 day steel strike. Most of the ore receiving docks were union and also closed. The PY&A (Pennsy) at Ashtabula was non union. The boats ran there until the filled up the whole storage yard. When the strike ended much of that ore was reshipped to lower lakes steel mills by the 6 rigs at that Ashtabula dock. Mike

[PDBLK25]

IMS really shouldn't worry about upsetting other customers. ASC proved it was disloyal by selling the burton to bay bridge in the first place IMS thought it was going to them to begin with.
IMS should do the right thing and sell it for use.

I hope that IMS would sell the Fortitude for use too, but I doubt they will. ASC has 2 more steamers that IMS would love to get their hands on. They can't afford to irritate ASC.
As far as the sale to Bay Bridge is concerned, I think it was some sort of smoke-screen (I have no idea why) by ASC. They ALWAYS intended her to go to IMS. If you remember, in early 2014, IMS said they were expecting a "large U.S. hull" to scrap. Now they have one.

[Guest]

I'm glad she took a detour down the Seaway last year, allowing those of us in this neck of the woods an opportunity to see her.

While she wasn't in steam and had already been visibly cannibalized, I'm glad that she didn't leave this Earth without me getting to at least see her once.

Did she ever make any Seaway runs during better times, like some other US fleets like US Steel used to do with a fair bit of regularity in decades gone by?

Or was this her one and only visit to the St. Lawrence?

[Denny]

Regarding the post and comments made by Guest in regards to the American Victory, I mentioned in a post a long time back about her. At that time, I also mentioned that it would be a crying shame that they scrap a ship of such historic nature given the fact that she was credited with shooting down enemy aircraft during WWII. Her battlestars last checked were still affixed to her pilothouse as is as well with the Lee A. Tregurtha. The point I made then and still do today, is if they are going to scrap the Victory at least save the pilothouse and the battle ribbons and stars as she earned them and they can never be replaced! Now, just where is a good place to have the pilothouse of the Victory? Anyone with any suggestions? How about Toledo? Yes I know that they have the Challenger there but, the Victory as the Middletown was a frequent visitor in Toledo and often would lay-up there in the Winter. Why not Toledo folks?

[Guest]

IMS really shouldn't worry about upsetting other customers. ASC proved it was disloyal by selling the burton to bay bridge in the first place IMS thought it was going to them to begin with. As far as other fleets the only ones scrapping anytime soon would be Algoma and CSL. Algoma seems to split between IMS and overseas (not sure if there's a rhym or reason to that). And any of the future boats Algoma sells for scrap is probably in such condition that another company wouldn't want them.

With the Burton we are talking about a ship that is in, by all accounts,
Great condition and scrapping it is really a waste.

IMS should do the right thing and sell it for use.

[Rob]

Talking about this case in particular. Good point

[Guest]

I believe she sailed for most of her first season with Oglebay Norton as the Ernest T. Weir but with Columbia colors. So this may be late in her first season. I will pull the original and see if there is a date.

[Guest]

With the Valor and Victory likely going for scrap sometime in the near future,

If the American Victory b)Middletown goes to scrap, it will be a Colossal Mistake on someone's part. I was on that ship while still the Middletown. I went all over her thoroughly - from front mast-mounted trimlights, the top of her unique stack, steam winches & spar-deck, crew and belt tunnels, engine room, and inside the ballast-tanks (I helped clean them out before she went to the shipyard).
My opinion & that of the crew: she is built like a tank. Not only did her navy parentage ensure that she had many redundant systems, But she had framing bow to stern that made her one of the most rugged ships that I (and many of her crew) had ever seen. Rumor was (& I stress rumor) that O-N assigned their lowest-ranked Captains to her because, given her toughness, she would be able to take ANY mishandling.

[Shipwatcher1]

With the Valor and Victory likely going for scrap sometime in the near future, I highly doubt that IMS would sell the Fort' to LLT and make ASC mad.

It wouldn't only be ASC. Selling a laker to another company for further use would prove to other companies that IMS could not be trusted. IMS scraps ships, they will not upset their potential customers.

[Denny]

I agree with you 100% Bowser as I too do not wish to see any photos of one my all time favorites being scrapped either! Wish to remember her as she always was the Courtney Burton and later as the American Fortitude at least when she was working for ASC from 2006-08 seasons. My fondest memory of her was back in the 1990s when once I caught her locking through the Mac Lock at the Soo. At the time, Bobby Tilley was her captain and he stepped out to talk and wave while locking through. She was a true classic and I only wish I would have seen her more as the Fort! I saw her once in 2006 her first season and twice in lay-up at Toledo after that. Also, I don't wish to see any photos of Algoma Montrealais being scrapped either as I am sure many will agree with me! She is the last true Canadian steamer and straightdecker with cabins both fore and aft. I want to remember her as she was as Montrealais and then later as Algoma Montrealais when she was sailing at the time. Two true classics that will surely be missed by many and all. Rest in peace Courtney and Montrealais. Until we see each other again in some harbor and port someday. 3 Long and 2 Short.

[Guest]

Seen it at IMS, Port Colborne this morning.

Well I guess that ends all of the speculation. Goodbye old friend, thanks for the memories. I have attached a picture of her as the Courtney Burton as a straight decker during her early career with Oglebay Norton.

Looks to be Very early in her career with Columbia, they're still painting "Courtney" on the hatch crane.