American Fortitude Updates?

[Guessed]

I'm tuning in late to this thread, so perhaps my post is a duplicate.

Anyway.

Many years back, several US boats were resold by Scrappers to Canadian fleets. Marine Salvage was often/usually the seller.

It was explained that if the US fleet stipulated that the boat was being sold for scrapping, the Scrapper had to get the US fleet's ok to sell it as an operating unit. Getting the US fleet's ok tended to require some financial encouragement.

Absent the US fleet's stipulation that the boat was to be scrapped, the Scrapper was free to do as he pleased.

[Reiss Recollections]

Just a quick note to all Fortitude/Burton/Weir fans. I will be listing an original framed painting by noted Great Lakes artist Kinley Shogren (1924-1991) of the Weir in the Boatnerd Classifieds in the next day or two. It may be available at the upcoming Lake Huron Lore Maritime Flea Market in St. Clair on June 13th if not sold before then.

Ken Niemi at reissrecollections@hotmail.com

[garbear]

This was in the Duluth News Tribune today.
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/3 ... ts-journey

I remember that as being a day of a missed opportunity. My apartment was just off Mesaba Ave., 6-8 minutes from Canal Park, and I was going up the stairway to my apartment when I stopped on the landing and saw the Burton approaching the piers. I watched until it got inside the piers and then continued to my apartment. That evening I was watching the 6 p.m. news and that was the headline story. If I'd just watched from the landing for a couple more minutes I'd have seen them their saga begin, could have grabbed my camera, got down to the Canal and got a lot of great shots. Oh well, I also missed Halley's Comet. Just another missed opportunity.

[guest5]

This was in the Duluth News Tribune today.
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/3 ... ts-journey

[Guest]

They served the purpose until they received the new Chinese jobs

[Guest]

If IMS were to sell a Laker that ASC wanted scrapped, I would expect that the next time any company sends a Laker for scrap they would first send an employee down to the engine room to damage the engine or turbine beyond economical repair, then to do other damage to various components of the hull so that it cannot be easily barged.

While it's a moot point here, I don't see structural damage being an option.

And crippling the power plant could put a damper on the enthusiasm of Lower Lakes Shipping for what otherwise is an attractive deal, but realize that they've repowered every steamer in their fleet.

If there's a good deal out there, they're clearly not shy at investing in it by repowering the vessel. They don't just buy ships and barges and run them until whatever life left in them by their previous owner is expended.

[Guest]

They were never intended to be long-term additions to the fleet. They were salt water vessels nearing the end of their lives, that CSL got a decent deal on to quickly add some modern bulkers to their fleet after deciding to reenter that trade.

[Guest]

The FedNav ships acquisition by CSL was this not a bad deal as these ships spent a lot of time in layup and now might be just scrapped?

[Guest]

It's not just the fuel issue with the Tad she requires a lot more crew then the new Chinese ships there is atleast 10 less crew on them only one tunnelman no electrician one oiler etc. it's really bad they cut the crew considerably

[Guest]

The Mapleglen, Birchglen,Erie,are done I also heard that when lower lakes is finished with the Frontenac she is done,they tell me that the Tad is coming out along with the Pineglen but them Belgium class ships were nothing but problems since they bought them from fed-nav just to plug in a toaster on those things was a chore due to they all are wired 220

[Guest]

Tadoussac surely is safe. She basically has a midbody that dates to the early 2000's.

If her Sulzer is causing issues, I would expect to see her receive new MaK's like those replacing the Pielstick engines in the forebody replacements that were done right around the same time.

[Denny]

The Richelieu has already been scrapped! She was scrapped during the 2013 shipping season sometime I believe it was? If I am right, believe she departed Montreal under her own power and sailed to Turkey eventually being scrapped there. I wonder though what CSL has in store for the Birchglen? She is still sitting in lay-up so far in Montreal probably due to lack of cargoes yet the Spruceglen is still out and sailing this year! I thought I read and heard here and on this board and forum, that the Birchglen and Spruceglen were both in fairly good shape considering all of their years sailing saltwater. Also, wonder what they have planned for the Pineglen? Last I read and heard right here, is that she is due to fit-out and sail sometime yet this season although she requires some work to be done yet at some point. She is the same age as the Atlantic Erie at 30 years both being built in 1985. However, the Erie has spent more time on saltwater trades than the Pineglen and also the Pineglen is a good grain carrier for CSL having set many cargo records as Paterson.

[Guest]

Look for a number of csl's ships being sold for scrap in the very near future

Which CSL ships might be scrapped?

I'm gonna guess:

Taddousac: 1960s era ship, apparently expensive to run.
The ex-fednav vessels: Oakglen, Mapleglen, Richelieu.
Frontenac: I hope not.
Atlantic Erie: Perhaps
Cedarglen: ?

[Guest]

Look for a number of csl's ships being sold for scrap in the very near future

Which CSL ships might be scrapped?

[Guest]

Look for a number of csl's ships being sold for scrap in the very near future

[rob from Erie pa]

Looks like its a mute point with the fortitude. Asc with no use for her sold her for scrap. Her current owners, either bound by a contract or more likely could find no company with interest in her,is going to scrap her. She is a fine ship, that has seen her day. Like many proud,strudy Lakers before her she thier is no longer an economic use for her.
Shipping companies don't care about a few extra jobs or " the great lake economy" , only thier own bottom lines, especially with hard times coming.

[Guest]

Exactly,

The right thing by the Great Lakes economy.
First of all that ship would employee let's say 25 sailors during the season and then there is the man be spent during layup on upkeep of the ship which brings in lots of money to the local economy (there are always stories in the Duluth Newspaper about how mI have these ships bring to the economy during layup.

The impact of these vessels go far beyond the companies and people that sail them. Each ship can employ many more people than just the sailors.

Every job supports more jobs than just one.

But here is a hull that has been idle, the market does not require it. Even being in good shape, it's still 62 year old equipment. Not saying that just because it's old it's useless, but down the road if ASC needs a replacement there are a lot of US built options that can be converted/barged or even built new, possibly as an ATB. Cost of building new is expensive, but some of the US fleet will eventually age out of usefulness.

[JFB]

I believe so, but not in recent years. There was a time not very long ago, where shipping companies on the lakes didn't care. They themselves sold their retired vessels to the highest bidder.

But the success of Lower Lakes, the decline in viable hulls, the good condition of some of these vessels, and the huge expense in new construction has changed that story over the past 15 years.

While I understand what you're getting at, if a vessel has a lot of life left in it and can be put to useful service for decades more to support domestic industry and employ people, it's hard to accept it going to scrap just because they're scared of Lower Lakes Shipping.

It's good for ASC's bottom line, but there's certainly an argument for the other line of thought as well.

Been shown to not hold up, several times.

Plus, they bought her from Brownsville, not from ASC. Brownsville likely fulfilled their part of the contract by selling her to another scrapyard when they decided not to expend more money into sending her south.

Unless Brownsville signed a contract with them and took them to court (And why would they?), I don't see an avenue for anyone to lodge what surely would be a futile protest.

The only thing that will certainly see to her demise, is that IMS is a going concern in the business of scrapping ships, with retired lakers the bulk of their business. They're not going to take a little extra money here and risk further dealings with Great Lakes fleets in the years to come.

If IMS were to sell a Laker that ASC wanted scrapped, I would expect that the next time any company sends a Laker for scrap they would first send an employee down to the engine room to damage the engine or turbine beyond economical repair, then to do other damage to various components of the hull so that it cannot be easily barged.

[Guest]

Exactly,

The right thing by the Great Lakes economy.
First of all that ship would employee let's say 25 sailors during the season and then there is the man be spent during layup on upkeep of the ship which brings in lots of money to the local economy (there are always stories in the Duluth Newspaper about how mI have these ships bring to the economy during layup.

The impact of these vessels go far beyond the companies and people that sail them. Each ship can employ many more people than just the sailors.

[rob from Erie pain]

So my question is with so many oceans ship being laid up due to the down turn in world wide shipping, why would they turn to old steamers for replacement hulls. I know salties have shorter hull life. But steamers going forward really don't make good business sense. Steam propulsion is a serious drawback. Parts are hard to find, likewise are crews.
American steamers may on day be converted to diesel since american company are bound by law to deal with American yards.
Not true in Canada, where thier fleets are being modernized by ships being built in China.
I am thinking the demand for old steamers might be over stated and time has caught up with them.